Maya 8.5
 

http://www.cgchannel.com/news/viewfe...sp?newsid=5853

Cheers
Jay

Well 8 didnt last to long....

Do you think that it has any more features other than the python programming and the unified dynamics?

The dynamics sounds interesting.

I dunno mate, Maya 8 didnt do jack for me to make me want to buy it, this is no different. Its all very well having this that an the other coming out in it, but what are the chances being that most of us will use these new features on a regular basis? Jeez Ive hardly touched dynamics as it is. And python scripting? Is that a snake that writes mel for you?

If it was a case of having just one version of Maya being like max where you can buy plugins such as cloth and fur then Id get it. Im considering a move to Max as it is bcause of its features, possibly C4D even

Cheers
Jay

Yeah man, same here with 8, sure hope that this is a free upgrade as there dosent seem to be that much substance to the upgrade, might be wrong as the python scripting might be an untapped wealth of features???

I used the dynamics quite a bit when I started off as I started making little effects for videos etc trying to make realistic movements so dynamics were great.

Uni's with maya 7 moving to 8 (probably 8.5 now) at the moment, so I was thinking of going to 8, might hold on though as in summer there might be maya 9 with a "Good" upgrade.

Theres lots of 3rd party plugins for maya rarther than going unlim? Are they more pricey than for max?

Just had a look on Autodesks site, the new cloth system seems to be pretty good as well as the ability to create virtual suns for outdoor lighting in mental ray, which has new shaders for architectureal visulisations.

Also theres apparantly a bit speed boost with the Nucleus system

Just got the e-mail from autodesk myself!!!!

WTF are they playing at???

I've just forked out for Maya 8 so that I can do my uni work at home and they go and make another upgrade which the university will be obliged to comply with hence my investment is instantly pointless!!

What is the point on any of the upgrades from Autodesk so far, I was much happier with the more stable Alias Maya 7 until I was forced to upgrade by my course. I can't afford or justify another upgrade this year (4 months after I purchased the last one!).

Rant over,

Mat ):

I'm still curious as to when v-ray will finally be integrated....that'd be a worthy upgrade for those doing architectural visualization. The v-ray folks announced they were working on it a couple of years ago and then...nothing. It's like sasquatch.

I think we are starting to see the disappearence of Maya as we know it...

Making money is Autodesk's main goal. They seem to care more about catering to large $$ buisness $$ rather than the independant artist. I would not be surprized if Autodesk is trying to go the way of Micro$oft and corner the market.

THX1138 > 'Making money is Autodesk's main goal. They seem to care more about catering to large $$ buisness $$ rather than the independant artist. I would not be surprized if Autodesk is trying to go the way of Micro$oft and corner the market.'

Finally someone sees the truth! THX1138, you are completely right. All Autodesk cares about is making lots of money as quick as possible like Microsoft. The camparison is flawless - they both buyout competitors, they both don't care about the quality of their products, they both are evil... the list is endless.

If you ask me, Maya's fate ain't gonna be good. Autodesk is going to slowly kill it bit by bit just like what they did to countless other apps they aquired.

Yeah this could be true, hence my venturing to look at max or c4d. Its just typical of a .5 release too.

Happymat:

I was lucky when I bought Maya 5, as a I got a free upgrade to V6 about a month or two after, because of the time I'd bought it V5 was almost obselete. Might be worth asking Autodesk dealers where you stand with this type of option

gster:

There are some good plugins for maya, ie shave and haircut is awsome for a shade under 250 quid and is easy to use, though Syflex cloth is very pricey atm, though is better than mayas cloth system. Maxs plugins are just great all have a good price, but the great thing with it is its inclusion of character studio which sounds great to use and isnt half as much trouble as standard rigging, but dont quote me on it LOL just incase Im talking crap!

Nitroliq: Yeah Vray is STILL being tested in the Beta version for Maya, we checked it out here recently at work, though word is comparing it with MR is as like comparing software, its all swings and roundabouts, but apparently its easier to setup but it renders slower...typical!

Cheers
Jay

Business is business, the bigger a company becomes the more driven they are to get the cash, rarther than have happy customers, especially in the case of independant artists.

If you had a business you would want to try and either aquire your competitors or push them out (look at the oil, motor industries, medical etc industries), its simple economics not good vs evil.


Happymat - Hope you get a free upgrade, concidering that you have only just upgraded to 8. You might be lucky and uni might keep 8 concidering that they have only just upgraded as they might not justify the cash??

gster123 > 'Business is business, the bigger a company becomes the more driven they are to get the cash, rarther than have happy customers, especially in the case of independant artists. If you had a business you would want to try and either aquire your competitors or push them out (look at the oil, motor industries, medical etc industries), its simple economics not good vs evil.'

Heres a better comparison. Autodesk is like Mr. Burns. They are both driven to be competive and will slant drill a school's oil reserve and steal candy from a baby in order to make an extra ten cents.

And I think people will like a company more if they forced out their competitor with their technological quality alone, instead of buyouts, lawsuits, misleading the competitor's potential customers and ect. If you say such a company does not exist, an old company called S3 got kicked out of the video card market becuase Nvidia and everyone else had better technology, not more money.

Ok, whatever...

sure you must have some insider info on this then.....

OK,

Yes we all agree this is about money, and not the product. Autodesk made a statement that "...both Maya and Max will continue as separate apps in their own right for the foreseeable future. We have no intention of discontinuing either app..."

Reading between the lines it reads:

We acquired Discreet and took on Max and made no major changes to it or any of the other Discreet apps. Now we have bought Alias we have cornered the VFX, SFX and Games Industries and own the 2 largest used apps in the 3D industry. We will let you all settle down and stop worrying before we get rid of both and make them one single application. Max and Maya will go at some point, we are just not saying when. Mwahahahahahaha.

Now I had spoken to gster about this 2 or 3 days ago and I said then I was worried about the future on Maya. Version 8 had the default geometry creation set to the way Max does it. Max 9 now has the same intro welcome page as Maya does. These little things point out for big changes in my book, just look out for other little Max things appearing in Maya and Maya stuff appearing in Max.

Mark my words, both apps are for the scrap heap and a new app is being morphed in front of us. Don't believe me!!! If you were CEO of Autodesk and you were spending double the money to create, maintain, develop and support 2 apps that do basically the same job, what would you do?

Hmmm... Do not trust anything that comes out of corporation statements.

The Architect

Please calm it mate. the post is not set for a debate on an economics lesson. Just take it as it is, the reason being Maya 8.5 and whether or not it stands to being a worthy upgrade, or switching to another software


Cheers
Jay

Hello,

on Jay's suggestion, I contacted my reseller about the posibility of a free or discounted upgrade to Maya 8.5 and they hadn't even been notified of it's release! They were really sympathetic and said that they would look into it for me.

It's interesting to note that when I mentioned to them my feelings about Autodesk in comparison to Alias I got the distinct impression that they were not overly happy with the way that Autodesk are dealing with Maya or their customers either.

Hopefully my university won't upgrade, but I do get the impression that Autodesk might insist. There is no other option for me, if they do, than to upgrade myself which, if there is no free upgrade option, makes me so angry.

As a student/parent I have very little money and, although student licenced software is discounted, it is still not cheap when it's Maya Unlimited. Taking the decision to be legal should not carry penalties, I think that I might be the only student on my course with a legal version of Maya and what do I get in return? The prospect of perhaps having to buy the software again, which I can't afford..... so what was the point in me buying it in the first place?

Cheers,

Mat.

I completly understand you Mat, i'm lucky as uni have 7.0 I'm on 6 as that's what was out at the time, and I did most of my work at home so it wasnt really an issue. As far as I know autodesk (or the reseller to uni) didn't push an 8 upgarde and uni didn't see the advantage of upgrading so you might be lucky as they might not want to spend the extra money??

As for the reseller you might be lucky, as its a student licence?? but thats just speculation..

Mat,

I sympathise 110%. I was an Alias Silver Member, and it was a gr8 deal for the $200 a year membership fee. Autodesk come in and decide to end Silver membership and leave Bronze and Platinum. I lost access to about 80% of what I paid for and I did manage to get a rebate, only after 3 weeks of email threats to take them to court if it was not restored or what money due to me was handed back. But the thing that really p***ed me off was the way they did it. No announcement, no email, no newsletter. They just stopped it. Not really a customer driven company in my eyes.

Lets hope 8.5 is worth the move as I though 7 to 8 wasn't much to brag about. Heres hoping for the free upgrade for ya.

Jay > 'Please calm it mate. the post is not set for a debate on an economics lesson. Just take it as it is, the reason being Maya 8.5 and whether or not it stands to being a worthy upgrade, or switching to another software.'

Yes Sir!


R@nSiD > 'We acquired Discreet and took on Max and made no major changes to it or any of the other Discreet apps. Now we have bought Alias we have cornered the VFX, SFX and Games Industries and own the 2 largest used apps in the 3D industry. We will let you all settle down and stop worrying before we get rid of both and make them one single application. Max and Maya will go at some point, we are just not saying when. Mwahahahahahaha.'

Sounds like history repeating itself again - Alias + Wavefront.

The architect,

Alias Research and Wavefront Technologies were purchased and merged by Silicon Graphics in 1995. I think that it was a very different approach to that which Autodesk has used in this case. Rather than buying out and re-branding, Silicon Graphics merged and evolved it's new purchases under the new name 'Alias Wavefront'.

Cheers,

Mat.

Mat,

Thanks for detailing the difference between, mergers and acquisitions :p

Arch> Your point is fair, but misplaced. Alias and Wavefront became Alias-Wavefront (a merger). Alias became Autodesk, an acquisition. Both are handled totally differently. Granted the takeover was beneficial (financially) to Ailias, but thats about it. I dont think any Alias staff hold key positions at Autodesk now.

For a better mutual takeover read up on the Disney/Pixar move. Disney prematurely end the 10 yr contract with Pixar. 6 months later Disney own Pixar (for a hefty fee). I wonder why the contract was ended then, hmmm...:p But from this John Lasseter is now CEO of Disney. Pixar are safe as John was was of its founding members.

The above is not the case for Alias, if no ex Alias staff are in key positions in Autodesk Inc. they are unable to look after the best interests of the software or customers.

happymat27 > 'Alias Research and Wavefront Technologies were purchased and merged by Silicon Graphics in 1995. I think that it was a very different approach to that which Autodesk has used in this case. Rather than buying out and re-branding, Silicon Graphics merged and evolved it's new purchases under the new name 'Alias Wavefront'.'

While it isn't exactly the same, it still is very similar in my opinion - One big company buys two smaller companies and two seperate apps were then merged into one.

There needs be a movement for the independant artist to keep support going for the older versions of Maya. I know 32 bit versions are giving way to the newer and faster 64 bit, but that shouldn't stop support for anyone who still operates on a 32bit system.

If autodesk continues to slowly morph both Maya and Max into one single new app, support will totally dissappear for both Maya and Max. Just imagine waking up one day only to find out that Autodesk only caters to corporate customers from FX houses, making it too expensive and/or impossible for the independant artist to buy or upgrade. Folks we need to keep support going ( if it's still there ) for the older versions of Maya.

THX: yeah I agree, Support for the 'old' customers is right. Indepent artists cant work/live like it. The point you made about it being just catered for 'VFX houses' is true, it will basically go back to square one, like the old Alias Power Animator days and Maya V.1 when the prices were like 20k and over.

These are the reasons Im looking at other software. Hell, Modo also gets my vote as a pick from the crop too, at least its customisable to work like Maya.

Cheers
JAy

Sorry to be a cynic regarding the idea of support but look at Apple and how they treated Logic Audio and Shake users. They initially promised support to PC users after they bought up emagic and unreal, then *poof* left all the PC users high and dry forcing long-standing customers to either switch to macs or switch software.

Maya definitely would need a support community and I'm sure there would be, even if it's unofficial (like a forum). I've tried Modo and while I like what I've seen, I found it quite difficult to get used to after using Maya for so long (even with setting up the mouse controls to resemble maya's). It's like anything, though...work with it long enough and it'll all come together. Plenty of other 3D packages out there...I wouldn't discount 3Dmax being ousted just yet, either.

I'm still running 6... I don't have a need to upgrade, I'm new to maya, I don't have the money to buy a new version. I'm set with 6 at the moment.

I'm still running 6.5. I was fixing to upgrade to 7.0 right before I heard Alias Wavefront was selling out to Autodesk. I guess Autodesk really bummed me out on upgrading, and from what I have heard about the new maya 8.5, Autodesk has done a nearly complete rewrite of the dynamics core, and integration of another programming language in as deep as MEL.

I can easily see Autodesk slowly rewriting Maya all together in future releases. I think support for the older versions is a must have.

I realy don't want to swith to a different app until I know where Maya is officially headed.

well, my pesamism on this subject made me dig out my old copy of XSI. Started going through Ed Harris's tutes again. I would never fully make the switch, but I need to hav another under my belt if Maya support goes Pete Tong.

Isnt the other programming language (Python) supported by other 3D apps too as well as being platform independant, which I think was a bit of a problem with MEL i.e a plug in or script would be almost platrom specific, which would be a good thing??

Also the new dynamic cloth sounds pretty good (if it is as easy as it sounds)

To me it sounds more of an evolution with new technology so it should be a good thing and if they are doing this they are not really shelving maya.

As for support for older versions, I hope that they do as its a lot to pay for a software that isnt supported, its like buying a car that after a new model somes out you cant get parts for.

For anyone interested

http://www.autodesk.com/us/maya/docs...tml/wwhelp.htm

Talk about irony! I finally get my Manager to purchase Maya 8, and boom! One business day later, this bomb drops! I can't believe it:headbang: !

Anyways, I have a question. What other apps are there that are as intuitive and powerful as Maya? I'd hate to jump ship, but it seems like Autodesk is sailing Maya into dangerous waters. I've tried Max, and I wasn't very pleased. It just seemed tedious to use. So basically, what I'm asking is is there another app that closely resembles Maya, both with the interface, and features?

Thanks gster...

Erictacti: The closest you'll get to Maya is actually max, Im not sure about XSI as I dont have the exp.

I think the biggest gripe for me with upgrades that come thick and fast is the fact that everyone rushes to get it regardless of their skill in any particular area that Maya has, I mean lets face it how many people actually knows a certain Maya module inside out and use every feature to their advantage? I use modeling tools probably more than anything in Mayas Poly Menu and probably use 8-10 tools out of the vast amount in the menu set


I think its best to get savvy first in 'your' chosen areas before worrying about NCloth and Python scripting etc.

Cheers
Jay

actually the closest [and better than] to maya is def xsi.
and python was available for xsi already. maya is just starting with it. xsi has better modeling tool [modo + silo combined] better rendering speed. and with version 6 its leaving everyone else behind :)
check it.

http://www.softimage.com/products/xs...ideo_tour.aspx

and fnd is less than 450$ so,
thats a no brainer. i dont think ive used maya in probably months almost...
i dont think ill go back to it unless im getting paid to:p
and ncloth is not as impressive as it seems. and not worth the price tag for maya unlimited when there are other solutions.

Hi Vlad

I was hoping you'd confirm this with XSI, thanks. I wouldnt pay out for Maya again for sure on reading your comments, and XSI is a steal for that price, although thats the lo-end version...no matter!!

Cheers
Jay

Not trying to sell XSI and shout down Maya (far from it), but its in built Hair tools are almost on par with Shave N a HairCut. But the best part is. It's cloth simulator is Syflex. Its built in to the Advanced version.

I started in XSI, and was doing really basic animation, skinning, rigging, modelling within 3 months. I have been 1 year at Maya and have still not got to grips with about 80% of Maya at a basic level...

Wow, I didn't think XSI would have become such an alternative $$. I usually see XSI at the bottom of many preffered lists. Even CGtalk keeps it low in the listings. I checked out the link that vlad posted, and I wasn't really impressed enough. I would like to see a better demo of it's capabilities before I'm sold on it. I usually go by the way of, "the cheaper the app, the more you have to spend on plugins and versatility".

Thats what you had to do with Max. Although it was alot cheaper than Maya, you had to pay extra for all the plugins just to bring it up to Maya's level, or so I was lead to believe.

hehe. probably 80% of videos are features not readily available in maya. even the stuff in xsi 5. maybe u should watch the videos a little closer :p
lol did u see MOTOR ?

Half Life 2 = XSI

Er, I think you missunderstood my earlier comment, my appologies. It's not about what they showed in those demos.

I have never looked into XSI before you posted the link. I have no idea how the UI works, what the work flow is like, and what all it covers ect. The demos were impressive, no doubt, and yes ( LOL ) I watched the MOTOR demo for crying out loud. The demos didn't show what I wanted to see, and thats not selling me on the product. It only covered the new features of XSI and some of the standard features that all XSI versions come with.Though It looks like XSI has much better animation capabilities than Maya has, but my background is mainly in rendering and modeling, not animation. Sorry for the confusion.