Thanks, and I still agree. I feel the image you linked me too looks much more human, and realistic than I was going for. I think what I am envisioning would be something from the world of Wallace and Gromitt. I will upload a wire. The only irritating thing is I did not save a low poly version of the head, and it is high now, so tweaks could be problematic. I guess I should convert to subs to make changes? still learning every day... Thanks Pure.