Thanks Skywola, Vlad yeah you're right, I was looking there too, and last night in fact I still wanna tinker with the nose area as a whole The 'sketch' reference you have given is interesting, - the lines on the cheek behind the nose, this 'line' is more likely to touch/line up the back of the nostril, edge of the mouth and front of the forehead. The person in the pic looks a little afro carribean so maybe thats the difference... Cheers Jay