if he's (them) are the guys who pioneered the CG girl look, doesn't that leave them out of the word 'cliche' and anyway, again its, as you said, what sells and its what the masses want, at the end of the day that means food...

and when it comes to women as 'models' what isn't cliche, whether CG or 'catwalk' how can it be avoided, in every mag they look the same, its dam boring now but once it was spectacular, like 'the rolling stones' and anyway, i reckon a good interior would...ect ect

hands up who doesn't like prepubesant girls..?? but hands up who prefers matutre women.. one is fantasy and one is reality and what are we dealing with here exactly, reality or fantasy, sorry to swing the thread Jay, cant help my self...