omg, tell me what ya think, i did this in just over 7 hours(or something) please c+c this to death! cheers -andy PS, i used the refs from the "Joan of Arc" tutorial on 3DTotal! again, please c+c! psps, i didnt use edge loops, because this is not for animation, and you will only see it from very far away, lol................................ im adding hair later, lol cheers.cheers -andy