I was looking over Dr Julian Tut today and saw a section where he deleted a large section of edges and re drew them where he wanted them, so i have revisited the diana model and started to repair the edge loops i wounder weather i still need the loop runnig off under the eye and down under the chin or not but here it is ... oh and thanks for the tip about hard and soft normals it is great no more poly smooth for me ... so what do you think