@ weyu - thanks and yeah it was all 3 hours =) @ gster - yeah i think i added abit to much edge loops as you can tell.. thanks for point that out dude, @ bruce - yeah i agree bruce, i think maybe later i should change my geomertry and start to get in more detail and show the (nose to the end of mouth crease, dont know what its called) etc. @ 5ive - haha yeah, i always see bruce using capital letters in replies now ... thanks for the replys guys =) Marlon.J