sorry, I didn't want to discount the value of nurbs, in fact I love using nurbs in rhino--sometimes I think confusion comes from people not saying what they're planning to use them for. For instance doing a character model, it just doesn't make as much sense to use nurbs, but a character modeler might be confused by advice or a comment from an industrial designer regarding nurbs on a forum somewhere. And I probably jump to conclusions too, thinking that most people using maya are doing character work...when that's probably not true either.