Forgot about them. Will check them out for sure, my sister had a Creative clip style player, and it was pretty great.

EDIT: This looks like the only one that could stand up against an Archos I may decide to track down. Looks pretty fragile, though.

https://us.store.creative.com/Creativ...B004ZF0RJ0.htm

This is the Archos I may end up getting. 18h battery life, 8Gb, decent enough screen and, no focus on extra marketing BS

https://store.archos.com/archos-vision-p-5018.html