Wow thanks guys! I wasnt doing the "Edit polys>Normals>Soften/Harden>all soft" step... as I wasnt aware it even existed!! but I will now! ------------------------------------------------------------------- I am revisting the Jacket, adding more folds in the poly stage as cb8rwh suggested (no shots yet ) --------- also I started to work on the hand texture as M suggested.. painting in PS. here are some early pics , no bump map yet - just color map. H!