Originally posted by Jay Anhslaught This is subdivison surface right? Not actual poly smoothing. Watch those tris on a subd it will make life hell if you put those in and convert to a subd. The irony being that subds will algorythmically smooths the geometry into what it 'sees' and then trys to make it a quad hence the strange patches that appear. this also applies when converting to a subd from an N-Sided faced poly. When converting to a final poly model too from Subds any tris are converted to quads also. So my advice would be to stick with quads in those types of areas, the mesh will be cleaner to when it comes to uving the model. Hope this helps Jay Yup, they're subdivisions. I have another question too I just thought of just now. I noticed the smoothing for subdivisions and polygon smoothe are quite different. With sudvisions, everything smoothes out perfectly and round, but for smoothing, the edges(the ends?) look all wonky and pokes out sharp corners or edges.