haha...lol...Im also a noob..hehe....but I think your an more experiend one because I didn't came that far of trying solving my problem as you did but....It was a try..that didn't work... I modeled the hand just about the standard grid big so I think that was enough... I really apprieciate your help! I learned a bit more! ...did you ever experienced this problem yourself or you just assumed how it works ? greetz