Thankyou very much, yours has been the first post since I asked the question. And I have just left the project until I came up with an answer - so the 'scene' is judt 'shelved' at the moment - Thanks a lot I will have a go at that - or maybe I will use Nurbs and apply the same idea... (I already have the shape done in Nurbs using deformers - but cannot find a "shader" that looked anything like a candle flame - just more like Fire. Thanks Scraggy