should have done a catch up read of the thread, i just opened to the last page, oops ... yeh the belly button thing looks right, but still wrong ... i stared for a bit , Im not sure ... maybe its just a bit short in the torso in general, but if as you say your working from ref' then it might just be a part of natural variation (it was always hard in life drawing when you get a model with some anomalous body form to get the drawing to look right):bow: