Thanks danny - was sort of hopeing you or kurt would chip in [though its bad form on my part for jumping in on someone else thread like this] anyway thanks for the advice - I see exactly what you mean.. funny how after looking at somthing for so long you fail to notice the obvious heres a slightly ammended version https://www.visualmuffins.1hwy.com/walkies2.swf still need to iron out the knee popping (any tips on that too? )