Yes Ben that did come in handy am using hot keys a lot more still have to work on cleaning my mesh but I am getting there, Bullet I think I have asked this question myself. I did try to start this model without using the 3 button but in the end I gave in. Not all my is smoothed, turrets, gattling gun ballels and some other small parts, I did ask ctbram when to use the 3 button and when not to I think his reply was experiance. I have tried to find tutorials on hard edge modelling (not using the 3 button) no real luck yet...........dave
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