thanks guys. Matt; hehe, that would be funny modeling someone's likeness just by chance. id like to see a photo of the guy. i think ZB lighting is so flat, thats why some stuff are not noticeable, like the nose crease. but i should have spent more time in the nose area when i was starting to model, but i remember getting tons of images and just building peice by peice each area, maybe the nose came out a little awkward. maybe an occ might show the creases around nose better.