hmm started the tut over checking everything I do with a fine tooth comb....... when I convert poly to subd... in mt settings should I have "Keep Original" checked? All my settings are default and this isnt checked with default settings. If it should be checked then which should I have Standard or Proxy Mode checked? I checked these settings because when I first created the poly cube I had my outliner opened....... I saw the pCube like I should have had in my last attempt at this tut..... but when I converted to subd the pCube was gone and all that was in the outliner was polyToSubd1.......