hey thanks, I am tring to avoid using area lights so most likely I try using point lights. Though if it doesn't work out then I'll try using an area light. In addition, I also notice that without rendering, pressing the 7 key in persp view I always notice that the light is brighter and the lighting looks a lot more even which is what I am looking for then when it is rendered. So I am also thinking maybe seeing I start with my fill lights first and see if I can get the lighting more even in my renders. Then worrry about my main source light and shadows. I want to see how you go about this, so keep posting. no problem dude. I'll also let you guys know how my thinking concept is going to work out.