Yes antiant you're right about the mouth and thanks a lot for the compliment. i've finally figured out wat the problem was with cloth, for some reason when i attached the curves together i got the error so i grouped them and hit the create panel button and voila there was the panel. so hopefully you will be seeing more work from me reall soon, i have to help my sister tomorrow with her house and since my occupation (read: dayjob:p )is carpenter i can't say i cannot do it:p