thanks for gettin back to me InvaZimm..
this was a front view and it was SC.. i tried working with them in a seperate skeleton and managed to get them workin pretty much the way i had wanted them but that was without binding skin and such..but i'll go back and give your a suggestions a whirl..i figured i'll just work on the simply maya tutorials for now and leave the joints till i can model decently..
thanks again Zimm.