Oh yer verts soz. lol Anyway i duplicated it. usually i get and predominent line down the middle, which i dont like. However i have over come that. I didn't realise that after you combine the 2, you have to merge the verts to get rid of the border edges. so thanx would appreciate it if you could have a look at it anyway. Also whats the best way to create eye sockets and a nose. Those are not my strong points!! Thanx guys