thanks for the comment ma'am don't know why but several pictures aren't showing up (linked to from my personal web server), saw them when I made original post but now missing sorry Nilla, but I am no carpenter! , I am a cabinetmaker and yes ma'am there is a huge difference , I'm a prima donna LOL cabinets are pretty much finished, have deleted and completely rebuilt the countertop, included recessed underside for light placement. have spent a couple days looking at UV tuts but am missing something as it's not doing what I expect (can't cut UV from shell to move/rotate/etc.) will have to watch again to see what I'm doing wrong...... spent a better part of 6 hours yesterday playing with textures, looked OK but really need to learn UV's so I can make the wood grains flow the way they're supposed to. and it's nice to be on this forum ........ I think