hey kev, have a look here: https://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/pro...entalray.shtml and just to set things straight: this won't be a "switch", just adding to my toolbox it can't hurt to know as many apps as possible, and since I'm feeling pretty secure in LW by now, it's time for a new challenge. oh and access to mental ray and PRman (when I can afford it) is just the holy grail, renderingwise. there's alot studios out there working with LW and maya, hence the beaver project, these 2 apps can really be a great addition to each other. and my daughter is fine, thx. isn't she the most beautiful you ever seen?