thanks NitroLiq!! i forgot to mention that 'hollow inside' theory! .. really if there is no camshot that shows wht is inside then we might as well not model that area- this goes for any surface-inside or outside... this is just a waste of time for the modelers as well as texture artist, riggers, lighter .... i mean all the 3D artists..... but we have to keep in mind the reflection/refraction area/surfaces too..