@ Jay Hey Jay! Yeah i understand totally. The reason behind me saying a specific type of modeller was because i never really had a path i wanted to go in. And this was a disaster as i would start a environment project, and by the next day i would start something else. So i want to try something different which i enjoyed which ended up being characters. Never really gave it a thought about how realistic i wanted it to be honest. I mean i would like to model it as realistic as possible but as you mentioned, its hard. Maybe to the point where i am really satisfied and ill finish it off with some good textures and shaders. Hopefully anyway haha. About the style, i am thinking more of the lines of a Team Fortress character look. But ill see what happens anyway. Cheers man, i been trying real hard. And about why i chose a female model, believe it or not it was because the first 'good' reference i found was a female haha. Yeah i never realized at the time but your right about variation in detail in areas... I guess my next model shall be a male Thats one thing i started doing, looking at difference references to determine how much muscle/fat was there. I think i may have exaggerated a little on how deep it was as looking at it now, the model looks as if shes sucking in her cheeks... Yeah i been analyzing information from both topology section on simplymaya and also the one that stahlberg did a few years back. Some pretty interesting things. Yeah i am gonna try lower the edge-loop count on the nose and rework it all. I think i added to much at the start and suffered. That is another thing i gotta do, fix the topology around it as it doesn't flow like normal muscles would as you mentioned. P.S. Funny enough i was hoping you would reply to the thread as i knew you would give me some really good tips on things and plus, you are the man when it comes to character modelling haha! Big thanks again dude Marlon