wow, that exactly what happened. I closed and reopened maya, and the mouth was completely off the grid :-P. Thanks Also any answer to my other question about the attributes box One other thing that is bothering me. If im not in perspective view, the xyz lines show up, but i cant click them because the little triangles at the end arent there? but if i view it with all 4 views on screen, there only there on perspective, causing me to scale/rotate/move solely in perspective view while watching the frontal view? Any ideas why?