cheers Mike, i don't think i'll ever be good enough for game work, or any other work for that matter. i have got some low poly versions, well i thought they were, what constitutes as a low poly (on a model like mine) ? the whole scene is 130k faces, 36k for each croc, and i know that is really high the "lower?!" face count for my croc was 8 thousand, but i could proberbly get that down by half i think? would that be alright for game work? i can hear ppl laughing at me!! regards Murph