you are right about the bump, it does seem alot flatter than i had thought. I think i will maybe try modelling the crease as a seperate piece of geometry and bake it as a texture to use as a displacement map... what do you think? About the stretch texture thing - i think it was just the lack of resources i had for pug fur. Do you mean the part at the top of the head? umm best side shot i have without going home and rendering one. (back at the internet cafe.) You can see the flatness in this tho Thanks for your help so far gster