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Old 30-05-2008, 12:16 PM   #1
mastone
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Default Indiana 4 (spoilers)

Hi all i just went to see the new indy movie and just like starwars i have to say it was a big dissapointment .
what spielberg and lucas once knew of storytelling is long gone
i really loved the previous installments just as i liked the previous installments of starwars.
everyone talks about the great steven spielberg and the great storyteller george lucas, but to be quite frank i just
hope they quite, next time they make a new jaws whom due to a nuclear accident doesn't need the ocean to survive and becomes twice as big and has wings...
Back to the movie;
I was able to overlook the superhero traits indy seems to have(surviving nuclear explosions dropping three time of a giant waterfall), the thing that ruined my evening was the (absolute lack off) storytelling, there wasn't a satisfying plot, most of the theories lucas presents are theories from erick von danniken who believed that interstellar travellers of mars or a tenth planet which is now gone in our solarsystem(near pluto i believe), gave us knowledge of irrigation, architecture and what not.
But he decided to give it his own twist into making the aliens interdimensional travellers who just disappear in the
end destroying everything they had collected(i thought the aliens percieved knowledge the greatest treasure so why
destroy it?).
-The woman with the wig and the psychic powers doesn't come of as a villain like the kalima priest from temple of
doom did.
-sidekick mac ? where did he come from? no reall explanation why he betrays indy
-mutt williams i didn't like the role he played in transformers and i don't like him now even his name is corny;
mutt as in dog indiana is also named after the dog thus the link that mutt is the son of indy....wow great find
there, lucas(being sarcastic)
- the doolitle rip offs i was glad however that the animals didn't begin to talk so there's a big plus to lucas ...(also
sarcasm)
And in the end Indy marries .....
They had twenty years and then they make this ...i wouldn't even call it a movie.
Here's a short outline of the movie i would like to see;
Indy finds the city of shangri la(place of the bermuda triangle) 10 years before this movie and because is father
and marcus and all the people he holds dear are gone, decides to stay. another ten year passes and for reasons he doesn't know (yet) the city begins to crumble, suddenly indy gets pulled out of some strange ancient bath tub by his old friend (the pavarotti look a like)who was looking for him for over 8 years because some kid from the college
where indy used to teach has found the diary of indy's dad and discovered a secret in it.
indy and his friend go back to america to the adress where the kid lives, only to find the kid is missing when they
want to go out indy gets punched by miss ravenwood whom explains that the kid is her son and that her sons name is henry jones.
The trio now search the house and find some clues the kid has left behind.
The solution to those clues are the artifacts indy found in the previous movies(the grail and the ark of the
covenant).
they discover that these artifacts are made by the aliens to keep the peace which they had for some time in an
alliance called atlantis(like europe atlantis isn't a country itself more of a union of countries), but some humans got
greedy and stole some of the artifacts for their own gain, seeing this the aliens destroyed atlantis and left,
leaving nothing but ruins behind(mayan temples egyptian temples etc) .
The good people that remained searched the planet to bring back the artifacts except the grail and the ark of the
covenant, because they couldn't find it.
When the aliens saw this they saw a good trait of humanity and decided to choose one human to give all knowledge to rebuild the peacefull society , his name through the centuries was bodidharma(boedha) jesus christ whom in the end gets killed by greedy men (romans) allies of jesus then hide the two artifacts so that humanity could never use them again.
When they find the grail(which fell there in the movie the last crusade) in a cave they get a gun pointed to their heads by nobody other then indy's son. his son takes the artifacts and leaves indy and friends behind.
they escape and discover his son did this because he believes he can save his mother- who has cancer(but didn't told anybody about it-with the power of the artifacts.
when they find him, Indy knocks his son out, because he found out that by saving one live another must be
sacrificed.
When he wants to walk in the chamber to give back the artifacts and use their power once more to save ravenwoods life, ravenwood tries to stop him indy simply says; sons shouldn't grow up without their mothers(reffering to his own childhood). at this moment indy's old friend (pavarottilook a like) sneaks behind indy and says ; children need their father too, indy.. and hits indy on his head takes the artifacts and walks in the chamber...
the next screen we see a 90 year old indy ,( marion died a natural death peaceful in her sleep after they had a

happy peaceful life) boarding a boat to the carribean saying goodbye to his son whom has a family of his own now .
In the last shot we see indy entering the same place the movie started with and indy takes of his hat and lets
himself fall in the ancient tub and enters shangri la for the last time.
moments later his son enters the room who realized indy was going away forever, looks at his dad and sees that his
dad looks peacefull takes his hat(silhuoette shot) walks out of the room and decides to destroy the entry to this
room, so his dad can rest in peace.... the end.

I just made this one up as i went along, imagine if i had 20 years.....shame on you lucas and spielberg....

Send this story to lucas if you have his adress so he gets a vague idea of how a story would look like.

Sorry for this lenghty text but i had to get this of my chest...

if you've seen the movie let me know what you thought of it.
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Old 30-05-2008, 12:57 PM   #2
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Haha, the digs at Lucas and spielberg are fighting words in some circles. :p didn't read the entire post, too long, and well I could've told you that this movie wasn't going to be good. There are instances where someone is on a creative roll and then they just simply lose it but they already made a name for themselves. Some decades ago, these concepts wowed people, hopefully the makers aren't THAT out of touch. On another note, I think Ford is a talented individual but he shouldn't be doing action roles at his age.
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Old 31-05-2008, 01:21 AM   #3
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LOL

Ive seen alot of reviews on the film its about 50/50 and have seen it myself and I enjoyed thoroughly. Im going to see it again next weekend...

I think people draw themselves in way too deep when it comes to films of this kind.

theory wise - Alot of the theories are pretty much true when it comes to the Crystal Skulls and the Russians. they were pretty heavy into ESp and all that stuff back in the day of the USSR and theres a Crystal Skull at the Bristish museum here in London...there are alot of theories worldwide when it comes to the whole Mayan thing becasue they just disappeared off the map basically so these theories are all we have and thats all they are...theories, its up to us as individuals to decide in what we believe, like religion.

George Lucas and Steven Spielberg just put their own spin on stuff to make it interesting from their points of view too.

for me the movie was a ride like the rest of the Indy movies. With all the supernatural stuff going on just like the other ones. Its all over the top. Story telling wise, I think it was fine and it reminded me of Raiders, get the ark before the nazis and here it was get the skull before the russians with some fun stuff on the way

Explanation of Mac was there, he and Indy were mates thru WW2. He basically turned because he ws fed up with digging up little bits of treasure with Indy and geting nothing as opposed to the offer given to him by the russians. He was a two faced merc at the end of the day. And didnt want to lose out either way. he went with who ever had the upper hand. dont forget the film is now set in 1950s so things have moved along

The Russian woman wasnt a total villain in my opinion but more like that of belloq (french guy) in Raiders. Despite being a pawn for her country she was in it for herself too

you overlooked the Indy 'superhero' stuff LOL. But what about the other movies, he survived the jump out of the plane in a dinghy then hit a water fall there and survived...a mine car chase over lava rivers, I could go on...all over the top stuff but its fun stuff

Its what these movies are about, my 11 year old could tell you that.

Mutts named after a dog like Indiana, so was the kid Short Round In temple of doom, it an in joke thing....

I could bang on...

I enjoyed it as did my girls...

jay
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Old 31-05-2008, 11:33 PM   #4
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A movie with a 20 year gaps always going to split people.

I thought it was enjoyable. There were good points and bad, but overall it did what it said on the tin, all the Indy parts were there.

On the parts with Mac, I thought it actually laboured a tad on why he was betraying Indy. LOL!

Overall I'd give it a thumbs up, but each to their own.
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Old 01-06-2008, 02:31 AM   #5
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LOL yeah thats How I should have put it actually Steve...oh well

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Old 01-06-2008, 05:46 AM   #6
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Watch it a second time? did we watch the same movie?(just kidding, to each his own, right?)
I just think the movie isn't up to par, just like starwars the story seems to be very flat and/or shallow.(i'm wondering if this is because of all the cg involved in all the new lucas -movies)
And don't say the previous ones were mindless actionmovies too, because they weren't.
Those movies had solid storylines, finished endings, maybe not all the characters were completely developed, but enough to give the movie a certain richness to it.(they had layers, like onions--shrek ripp off--sorry had to do it).

I actually didn't mind there were aliens involved in the last indy <and i'm wellaware of the theories surrounding them and the development of mayan society>, because in my opinion it doesn't matter what the story is about as long as the story is told properly and to my great dissapointment they have failed misserably...( the mummy and national treasure are better told and they're Indy ripp off's basically).
The movie was basically rolling from one explosion into another with addler babbling something seemingly mysterious which only Indy seemed to understand(i know because he looked into the crystal skull eyes)

The only fun thing about the movie was the quicksandscene(with the snakerope) and only then the movie seemed to get the richness and wittyness of the previous installments.

again very lengthy --sorry guys---

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Old 01-06-2008, 09:00 AM   #7
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I think the story was pretty well put over, and was a nice update, without going into everything thats happened in the last 20 years, just another adventure, one of many, the action was OTT, as expected and all good fun, had a smile where I was meant to, I didnt go into it expecting it to be amazing so I really enjoyed it.

It fited well with the other Indy films, and I thought the ending was fine, similar to Raiders IMHO. Its not my favourate indy film but it's a good addition.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:24 AM   #8
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Hey Guys

LOL yeah it was the same movie, I was the guy eating the popcorn and cheering when the russian got slugged, didnt you hear me LOL

Ive been mulling it over as theres some bad press on the movie on other forums, mainly by a lot of the younger generation so fair enough if its a different expectation, we want it all when we're young.

On the whole like Steve said its certainly a welcome edition to the series, not the best but welcome nonetheless.

For me Raiders is the absolute pinnacle of the four followed by Temple of Doom both very gritty movies, I was actually there on the sets of both these movies and at the cast and crew screenings so theres a closeness for me there plus my Dad worked on them... but Im going to put Crystal Skull just ahead of Last Crusade. Why? Its not the bad bluescreening on the Biplane sequence I really couldnt care about that, but because of the small issue of introducing Last Crusade with Jonesy as a boy threw it off course for me a bit. I felt by doing that the movie was slightly out of kilter with the others. And also seeing the other Indiana Jones style of character too, (the dude who gives him the hat) Needless to say its still a fun thrill of a movie

Anyways Im just old school, its all in the veins and wont be going anywhere soon.

parfait...everyone likes parfait...(another shrek one for ya)

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Old 01-06-2008, 09:41 AM   #9
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crystal skull better than last crusade?
What are you drinking jay ? cos i want some of that stuff too, so i can watch it again and like it!!! :p

You were actually on the set of an indiana jones movie?
That's pretty cool (did you managed to steal a hat or a bullwhip?LOL)

And what did your dad do there if you don't mind me asking?

But i again have to say that i'm quite baffled about your rating (keep in mind i can barely accept that people actually like the 4th movie)i actually liked the part where indy recieves his hat(and before that his bullwhip).
If i have to rate it it would be this
1. lastcrusade
2. raiders of the lost ark
3. temple of doom
4.Go back in time and kill lucas before he calls spielberg and brainwashes him with the new mindcontrolling software/tool from ILM which makes you believe you can solve plotholes and a bad story with a cgi a bomb sequence...(Indy to me will always be a trilogy)

Tomorrow i'm gonna buy a delorian, search for a guy whom is hanging from some electric cables and go back in time...LOL
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:58 AM   #10
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LOL Mastone...

yeah man its good shiiiii....

My Dad did sound effects. Ben Burtt the sound effects dude would visit my Dad at his office here in the UK at the Elstree studios, and run thru various bits and pieces. the person in charge of production there was a lady called Pat Carr who always got us the tickets and stuff for the work done on the movies. It was the same with the original Star Wars trilogy, Batman (Keaton ones) Muppet movies, Labyrinth, a couple of Bond movies(noteably Live and let die and Octopussy) thos are the only two I recall, also a lot of TV stuff, my dad was also under the sound editor Brian Hickin on Thunderbirds back in its day along with Captain Scarlet and Joe 90. I have actual footage here at home from Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet. I used to watch the edits on the old movieolas (way before digital editing) during school holiday breaks. great fun. the best stuff has to be visiting the set of Empire Strikes back, seeing the full size falcon was just amazing....

Yeah Lucas and his team of mind controlling Ninja Death Squad are at large...beware!

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Old 01-06-2008, 10:21 PM   #11
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Haha, I'm quite baffeled that you dont like it Mastone LOL!

I'll throw my list down

Raiders
Last Crusade
Crystal
Temple

Dont get me wrong this aint a list going form Amazing to Rubbish, just my ranking of em!
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:12 AM   #12
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thats interesting Steve..

Crusade before Temple of Doom, is it because of the darker nature of the film? I know for a fact that temple of Doom is Spielbergs least favourite of them all because of that very reason.

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Old 02-06-2008, 09:11 AM   #13
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@ jay; Wow that's a great history you got there and now you continued your dad's company/studio?
Did you meet some stars back then(Indy perhaps)?

@steve;"Haha, I'm quite baffeled that you dont like it Mastone LOL!"

Ok now you're just playing me.
And then you rank it number 3 just to hurt me......very harsh there steve very harsh.....
But serious what part did you like the most;
-The part where Mutt greystoke king of the jungle catched up with the jeeps
-The parts where Dr Indiana Doolittle interacted with the animals(although he seemed a bit bias against snakes)
- maybe you like the part where the parents of ET blew up one of our mayan temples, just because we made their son come home to late some 20 years ago?
-The part where treebeard(lord of the rings) had a part as a tree which gentily let the overly smiling miss ravenwood(was she on drugs or something i thought she was the feisty-spelling-one of the girls)and co in to the river.
-the maneating scarabs oh sorry....ants i've mistaken indy 4 with the mummy, sorry.
I can go on forever but that would be like writing a very bad story after a 20 year gap in which you'd rely on things you've said and done in the past so you can feed the masses a pale dull story.....hmmm sounds a bit familiar...I wonder where i've seen/heard this story before.....oh i know it was last saturday...LOL
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:51 AM   #14
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No mate, the studio is mostly gone, theres a few bits left there for small tv stuff, but all the main sound stages are gone and have been made into a supermarket. but you can see the soundstage name after George Lucas very clearly.

No I never met Harrison Ford unfortunately but I have his autograph as friend got it that for me, but Ive met a few of the Star Wars dudes just not Harrison ford...

I thought one of the funniest parts was Mutt dipping his comb into the pepsi cola to keep his hair down!! Done with subtlety...Quality!

cheers
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:43 PM   #15
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Jay wrote:
Hi all i just went to see the new indy movie and just like starwars i have to say it was a big dissapointment .
what spielberg and lucas once knew of storytelling is long gone
i really loved the previous installments just as i liked the previous installments of starwars.
everyone talks about the great steven spielberg and the great storyteller george lucas, but to be quite frank i just
hope they quite, next time they make a new jaws whom due to a nuclear accident doesn't need the ocean to survive and becomes twice as big and has wings...
Oh they havent forgotten how to tell stories, they just don't want to write them themselves anymore, and movies don't revolve around story anymore. There doesn't seem to be a intrest in "Story" anymore in movies today. I work at a theater and the people who come in really don't care for it. I have talked to many people about this subject. It's all about money, marketablity and timing now. Movies are way too corporate now, and creative story telling doesn't sell tickets like bix FX movies with hot actors do.

Big flashy budgets seem to be the norm now and alot of studios boast about how expensive their movie is especially when it rakes the budget and more back in just the first 2 weeks of theactrical release. That is the problem with movies today. It's all about money.

I'm also getting tired of all the remakes. Why cant they just re-release the origional and just bring it up to date with the FX work. Now some movies do need a remake, but for most, why bother if the origional movie still has a strong following today. I heard sometime last year that they were going to remake Arnold Schwarzeneger's Total Recall. Heh, who knows, mabe a remake of Jurassic Park might in the near future. It's 20th anniversary is just 4 years away. I wouldn't put it past hollywood in the least.
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