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Old 24-12-2010, 02:20 PM   #31
mastone
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I still disagree about proportion, but yes it is " his model" so try not see it as critique, more as guidelines, based on mistakes I used to make and the biggest mistake is to think that you can do it out of the top of your head without using any guidelines to start from, even Rembrandt , van Gogh and numerous other artists used tricks ( think pencil on a cord perspective lines)to check up on their " models".
Below is a quick mark up I just made don't look at the angle of the shoulders or the ugly grey muck I tried to pass off as painting.

I'd say do what you want with it I hope it's usefull
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Old 24-12-2010, 03:16 PM   #32
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i think if you are talking about proportions this image is more fair. Your picture made the original look tiny.
and your version really tall.
It does feel more correct now, but I think something like this is up to the artist. Its definitely an area for artistic license.
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Old 24-12-2010, 03:28 PM   #33
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Thanks for the feedback guys!

Originally Posted by mastone View Post
I still disagree about proportion, but yes it is " his model" so try not see it as critique, more as guidelines, based on mistakes I used to make and the biggest mistake is to think that you can do it out of the top of your head without using any guidelines to start from, even Rembrandt , van Gogh and numerous other artists used tricks ( think pencil on a cord perspective lines)to check up on their " models".
Below is a quick mark up I just made don't look at the angle of the shoulders or the ugly grey muck I tried to pass off as painting.

I'd say do what you want with it I hope it's usefull
"I still disagree about proportion, but yes it is " his model" so try not see it as critique, more as guidelines, based on mistakes I used to make "

I can appreciate that you have your own opinions on the design I went for, and I could appreciate that if there was a valid point to it, rather than a dislike for the design (Which is fine). I had my own concerns with the proportions when I first started, as I wanted to give him the intimidating proportions of a Buffalo. I was concerned the head would be too large, but Ive tried it smaller and it just doesn't work.

Also, the image that you are basing all of your critique off of is EXTREMELY old, in fact I think it was the first image I posted of the Minotaur, please reference the latest images on the first page.

"and the biggest mistake is to think that you can do it out of the top of your head without using any guidelines to start from, even Rembrandt , van Gogh and numerous other artists used tricks ( think pencil on a cord perspective lines)to check up on their " models"."

??? who said I went into this project blind? The original concept was sculpted before I started on the actual model. I spent ages with different variations of legs and hands, heads and proportional styles. And this isn't an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, not all the creatures are going to look exactly the same, bar the varying latex head piece. The rules of creature design can't be limited to a fixed set of rules, as long as it's believable, it doesn't matter. Hollywood is FULL of proportional faux-pas. But as long as it looks the part, it's all good.

"Below is a quick mark up I just made don't look at the angle of the shoulders or the ugly grey muck I tried to pass off as painting."

The crits you've made there are all things that have been addressed in the images on the first page. Except for the head, which to be honest looks odd. But that's my opinion.

Sorry if this comes off as rude, I appreciate that you're trying to help, but please crit the latest version of the model. As this would be the most helpful for me.

Anyway, thanks for the effort.

And thanks to everyone for the great feedback... G-Man I was a bit taken-aback, thanks man.
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Old 24-12-2010, 03:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by honestdom View Post
i think if you are talking about proportions this image is more fair. Your picture made the original look tiny.
and your version really tall.
It does feel more correct now, but I think something like this is up to the artist. Its definitely an area for artistic license.
Interesting, but now I feel the shoulders look overly broad as they have nothing to support, so they would need to be narrowed to look right.Taking from his bulky look.

I can play with a few idea, but I just wanted to go for something a bit more original... as original as you can get when doing mythological creature.

I think no matter what changes I make there will be people who like the smaller proportions, and the ones that like the extreme proportions, and to do a middling 'compromise' is out of the question, I want people to remember this individual Minotaur as it did something different to the rest.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 24-12-2010, 04:54 PM   #35
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I go along with G-Man and say your Minotaur is as good if not better as any I have seen on the big screen or small............dave
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Old 24-12-2010, 06:03 PM   #36
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@ Mayaniac
- Don't worry I am not affronted in any sense ( I have taken a lot worse )
I like the design you have made , but let's just say I wanted to give you a different point of view regarding proportions and not so much critique.
And in all honesty I did ask to disregard the angle of the shoulder( the original has the better angle imo).
I have looked at the entire thread btw, the reason I took the " old" image was because this is the only image where I can see the entire body without perspective or ornaments masking of proportions and size

@honestdom:
Scale and proportion are related, albeit that your rescaling does indeed give a better view proportion-wise, the head of the adjusted minotaur is smaller than the original and really the only scaling I did was the lowerbody( from the chest to the feet) and I made the arms a tad longer ( not much.)
The fact that the original image appears tiny is because the body is to small in regard to the size of the head...hence proportion.

Below is an image where I scaled the original up so Mayaniac has more reference ( if he wants it )
I have drawn a little break line on the original if he scales the geometry a bit up below the line I think it will be a lot better for it, but that's just my opinion....nothing more nothing less.


I agree that artistic license prevails here so no more critique regarding proportion from my part
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Old 25-12-2010, 01:40 AM   #37
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I think this is healthy...good debates and disagreements. I know SFA about modelling but I see it as completely fictional and therefore not restrained in the way a human would be. The head does look oddly large but if you do reduce the scales it wouldnt have the impact it does. I also agree with G-man this is what I would have liked to see in Narnia...much better than the movie steve.

At the end of the day its your model and what an artist does is convey a message/feeling/theme, I think despite the disproportionate aspects it is doing just that.

Cheers bullet
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Old 25-12-2010, 09:29 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mayaniac View Post
Interesting, but now I feel the shoulders look overly broad as they have nothing to support, so they would need to be narrowed to look right.Taking from his bulky look.

I can play with a few idea, but I just wanted to go for something a bit more original... as original as you can get when doing mythological creature.

I think no matter what changes I make there will be people who like the smaller proportions, and the ones that like the extreme proportions, and to do a middling 'compromise' is out of the question, I want people to remember this individual Minotaur as it did something different to the rest.

Thanks for the feedback.
hey man, don't get me wrong, i like your version. its much more interesting.

...i do think it has a long way to go to be as good as the one in narnia tho
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Old 25-12-2010, 10:19 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mastone View Post
@ Mayaniac
- Don't worry I am not affronted in any sense ( I have taken a lot worse )
I like the design you have made , but let's just say I wanted to give you a different point of view regarding proportions and not so much critique.
And in all honesty I did ask to disregard the angle of the shoulder( the original has the better angle imo).
I have looked at the entire thread btw, the reason I took the " old" image was because this is the only image where I can see the entire body without perspective or ornaments masking of proportions and size

I agree that artistic license prevails here so no more critique regarding proportion from my part
Cool man. As Bullet said, it is good to have some healthy debating going on, and there will be definite changes made to the Minotaur, so feedback is appreciated. Ill post some more up-to-date pics when I get home, at my parents for Christmas, then we can continue refine the design.

And don't stop critting because I got a bit short (was down with a fever for the last couple of days). All help is appreciated.

@Dave: Cheers man! Im glad you think so, I appreciate the compliment.

@Bullet: Thanks man, I'm not too sure myself, but I'm thrilled you (and others) think so.

@Dom: Thanks, wasn't being funny. I appreciate the feedback.
I agree it's not on the level of the movie, mines still just a sculpt... not that I think it will get to that level, but I do wonder how many people actually worked on the Minotaurs in Prince Caspian.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, and Merry Christmas!
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Old 25-12-2010, 11:57 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Mayaniac View Post
@Dom: Thanks, wasn't being funny. I appreciate the feedback.
I agree it's not on the level of the movie, mines still just a sculpt... not that I think it will get to that level, but I do wonder how many people actually worked on the Minotaurs in Prince Caspian.
i'd guess 8 or 9.
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Old 27-12-2010, 02:27 PM   #41
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Love the details of anatomy, looks amazing. I'm not an expert with ZBrush myself, but I have to agree about the proportions. The huge head makes the body look a bit tiny. Most heroic creatures have a rather small head sitting on massive upper body, plus the legs could need more volume compared to the arms.

The armor you made is awesome, but doesn't fit with that character. I picture a minotaur as a very powerful, brutal creature, which requires a really heavy armor with rather raw shapes and design. Too much ornaments and stuff make it look like elven armor.


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Old 27-12-2010, 02:39 PM   #42
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This is a good model mate...the ones in Narnia are bloody good too but too furry and sort of Muppet like to me...then again Im a fussy bugger with movies and we all have our own interpretations LOL...thats why we create art in the first place.

Im not sure I agree TDW...again it comes down to our individual perceptions. I honestly think it has or would have more impact if it had nearly no armour at all. I mean we all see the dude with a 40kg battle axe and armour 3 inches thick..which would scare the crap out of me!!But something like a berserker with no armour or very little...completely muscled and just raw power would also be imposing.

I probably agree in weapons...a bow wouldnt suit this kind of warrior I suppose...more of a mace/warhammer or a two handed sword. It will depend on what steve will be trying to nail at the end I suppose. Having lots of options with weapons and armour I think will give him a range of choices...then a scene to set it off.

Dont forget a nipple ring steve...just to show he had it done LOL.

In all I think time will tell where it goes and Im sure with all of these suggestions...steve has a headache. (In jest mate)

cheers bullet
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:40 AM   #43
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Thanks for the feedback!

A different take on a Minotaur, based on the Concept by Carlos Huante



Still WIP, and it varies from the concept, but eh.

Will be posting more pics when I've done some more work on him.

Cheers!
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:38 AM   #44
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Looks very Doomlike in its appearance steve! bloody big bugger innit?

EDIT: I must say there is some nice artwork there man!! Interesting concepts...blend of imagination and reality, in particular with the beasts. I can relate to his work immediately...I think along the same lines...though I cant draw stickmen LOL

cheers bullet
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Last edited by bullet1968 : 09-02-2011 at 02:43 AM. Reason: addenda
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:59 AM   #45
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damn you really do have this zbrush thing on lock
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