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Old 09-04-2005, 07:00 PM   #1
lukedukeofpuke
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Default Shaders (sampler)

I am trying to creat a fake SSS effect and have been told that if I use the sampler node combinde with a ramp I can get the effect I am looking for. My problem is I do not know how to use the sampler node. I am actually pretty new to shaders all together and been having some problems finding anything to explain the basic consepts. So if you know how to use the sampler or just know of some where that I can learn more about shader let me know. thanks!
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:05 PM   #2
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Sounds like there talking about a velvet shader there. Get on and disect it to find out how to use the sampler info node. is the best way.

how you put it togather might also depend on what you plan on useing when rendering. Do you know if you plan on useing the mayasoftware render on it ? or MentalRay with like FG on it ?

Let me know and we'll see what we can cook up.
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Old 11-04-2005, 12:00 AM   #3
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Do you know where I can find a velvet shader to disect?
I am going to use mayasoftware to render.
Another thing that I am trying is to use a Anisotropic node instead of a phong or a blin for my base shaders in my shader, I am not sure how it will work but I will let you know.
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:16 AM   #4
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You can find one on Highend3d.com in maya shaders section.

in the morning I'll see what I can cook up also as I'll probably need some velvet afeect before the challange is over anyway.
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:31 PM   #5
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Ok, I found a simple velvet shader and am trying to recreate it. I tried to make everything the same but my ramp shader does not look right and it is not giving me the same efect. I have posted a pict of my hypershade and atribute editor. As far as I can tell everything looks and reads the same ecsept for what I have circled in red. Do you know what I am doing wrong.

Pony: I just wanted to say that I have been following your posts here ever since I started in 3d last year and have learned allot from your comments. So keap up the good work and thanks for the help!
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:38 PM   #6
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Well I wouldn't know for sure unless I looked at the shader more. You can select the shader in the hypershade and export it. Up load it here. But from what I seen on the velvet on my computer, it looks like you might have the ramp pluged in to something other than the Incandescence of the Lamber or Anistrophic.. what ever your useing there.. Like the color channel maybe ?

There is some nice SSS efect that can be gotten from linking the sampler to the lights and this. Ever read Stahlbergs little tutorial on the fake SSS shader ? More just wandering, as there is one little thing he leaves out, LOL.
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:43 PM   #7
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ah yeah. A reson why more I was just asking was becouse He did that tutorial befor the "Ramp shader" was put in to maya 5. The ramp shader can do what he did just a bit eazyer if you ask me. But eather way works.

If your intrested in his paper though :
http://www.optidigit.com/stevens/shadetut.html
PS I mentioned he messed up on one thing. Not really but he did forget to give the corect values for the clamp in that network.

PSS. thanks for your kind words.. yeah drop buy the thread and leave a note, always intrested in your thoughts.
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:04 PM   #8
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Ok- I have checked to make sure my ramp is pluged in to my incandessince, and it is. I am not at home right now but when I am, probably tommarow, I will uplload what I have been working on.
I have been looking at Stahlbergs stuff as well as alot of other forums on skin shading over the last few days, but I just seam to be missing something. I feel like I have missed some foundational things that I nead in order to understand how this all works. I have worked for hours and hours just messing around in the hypershade but dont feal like I am making any real progress. I am not sure what I should do. I think I may take a break from all of this for a while and start working on another character. (Modeling is where my heart is)
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Old 12-04-2005, 06:17 PM   #9
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It can be frustrating. Well send that fill I'll have a look. You know you can get on the IRC channel if you want. Things happen much faster on there. I'm there most of the day.. fakeing or even useing SSS isn't eazy yet. Some one corect me if I"m wrong but it wasn't even untill like last year there were any real and reliable SSS shaders for mental ray out there.

PS and you got some color in the color channel ?
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Old 12-04-2005, 07:00 PM   #10
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Don't know if you've seen this or not, but it's a pretty good explanation of using SSS in Maya....
http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/misss/

[Edit] also found this for simulating SSS...
http://www.motiondesign.biz/sss_start.html
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Old 12-04-2005, 07:41 PM   #11
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thanks mhcannon, I haven't used the misss yet.. just the pSSSt one..
Have you used both ways mhcannon ? I wandered how they stacked up.. the fake SSS mentioned there I don't think will work well for human skin but for thinks like wax it could be great . maybe faster..
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:59 PM   #12
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Originally posted by Pony
thanks mhcannon, I haven't used the misss yet.. just the pSSSt one..
Have you used both ways mhcannon ? I wandered how they stacked up.. the fake SSS mentioned there I don't think will work well for human skin but for thinks like wax it could be great . maybe faster..
Haven't tried the MISSS yet. This (and other threads) have sparked my interest in wanting to see what all the fuss is about regarding SSS. I have downloaded the shaders, and time permitting, I'll try it this weekend.

I have played the simulated and does a fair job of simulate nonorganic translucent material such as wax (ok that's kind or organic but I trust you understand what I mean), plexiglass, cast resin, polymeres and acrylics. But I agree I don't think it would be a good skin effect.

I'm still just a modeler, so I'm still feeling my way around lighting, shaders, rigging, etc. But I'm not in a huge rush to learn everything at once.
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Old 12-04-2005, 10:12 PM   #13
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oh yeah guy's forgot. If you want to see what the pSSSt shader looks like look in my female WIP thread in my sig. pritty much used it out of the box like that.. besides changing the deapth a bit. Theres no textures eather so its not like a great example of what is posible with it.. but it does show what it might be like.

I did get the fake SSS of stahlbers to work and also my own verstion. But right about then they come out with the pSSSt so I figured why play around with the fake when you can have the real.. but I'm getting intrest in the fake again. I'd like to get a good fake sss working for the bones and stuff on my robot. It being a wight plastic thats not shiney all over.
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Old 13-04-2005, 01:43 AM   #14
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Actully the first thing I started messing around with was misss,(the link that you provided) It was working ok, I had not quite figured out how to get it to work right, then I was told that I should try and figure out how to do fake sss because of render time. I want to use it for a project that I am working on that will eventually have a LOT going on. Now I am woundering if it really worth it. How much diferance do you think it really makes?
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Old 13-04-2005, 01:55 AM   #15
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more of a guess but it can make a big, big difrance. the longest a shader that was fake SSS toke on the femail buy its self was about 34 sec, while the pSSSt shader ran it up to 5:00minutes.
If you do anything with finalGather FG or anything like that with occlution in MR you might want to as well stick with the SSS it will not take much longer than like FG will anyway. and the SSS has oclution bilt in to it.

Wandering, tell me aobut the scene and what you want to acomplish visualy with it ?


if you plan on doing a animation I do agree ya have to find good resonable time salutions . the animation on the robotic' horse neck was like 2:10 a fram something like 445 frames. with only FG at 600, where as I latter loaded up a dirtmap shader and it chucked out the frames at 42sec each. and looked better. Had I not finished most of it with FG already I would have switched for sure.
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