Maya Training

Introduction to Hard Surface Modeling

Maya Training

Interiors and Furniture Vol 1 & 2 - Modeling & Cloth

Maya Training

Shading, Lighting and Rendering the Bedroom in MR

Maya Training

Robot volume one - Modeling with animation in mind

Maya Training

Spach-Alspaugh House the complete courseware

Maya Training

Burt The Cartoon Dinosaur Vol 01 - Modeling

New Maya Training

Robot Volume 02 - Hybrid Rigging
You are here > Home > SimplyMaya Community Forums
Loading

Welcome to Simply Maya

Please Sign in or Sign up for an account

Member Login

Lost your password?

Not a member yet? Sign Up!

Old 02-01-2007, 10:49 PM   #1
Acid44
Registered User
 
Acid44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,639
Thanks: 12
Thanked 186 Times in 179 Posts
Default triangles

im curios to know what it is with you people and triangles WHATS WRONG WITH TRIANGLES any games ive extracted models from use all tris so is it just a game thing or are they idiots???

im so confused
__________________
Acid44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 10:52 PM   #2
j5ive
Subscriber
 
j5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sunny Ol' Wigan, UK
Posts: 752
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

I'm sure it's not because 'they are idiots'.
__________________
If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand.
j5ive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 10:55 PM   #3
Acid44
Registered User
 
Acid44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,639
Thanks: 12
Thanked 186 Times in 179 Posts
Default

lol ya but everyone here goes out of their way to avoid tris and their just layin 'em down...
__________________
Acid44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 11:03 PM   #4
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

I think that a game engine converts the model to triangles, so when your exprorting them out that what your getting.

As for using Quads, the layout of the mesh is cleaner and I think that they are able to deform better when you setting up the character. Also if you go to sub d's triangles give some strange geometry and wont render in mantal ray (up to maya 7) (the subd not the poly)

If your making characters for games then the odd triangle wont matter, as its converted.

If I'm barking up the wring tree then please tell me as this is my understanding at hte moment..
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 11:27 PM   #5
Acid44
Registered User
 
Acid44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,639
Thanks: 12
Thanked 186 Times in 179 Posts
Default

i dont think your barking up any tree simply because people dont bark...

as for the game engines converting them: good to know now i can make some good use of maya and grand theft auto:attn:

also i didnt know that MR couldnt render sub'd tris... that blows...

if you smooth an object is it still a polygonal object or would it be considered crap by a game engine?
__________________
Acid44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 11:32 PM   #6
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Not too sure about games to be honest.

I think that the main thing that you need to look into is the maximum poly count for the thing your importing, for example in GTA a car might be, say, 10000 polys max.

I think that mental ray in maya 8 can render tris. but prior to that it would ignore them.

How do you know I dont bark??
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 11:34 PM   #7
enhzflep
Subscriber
 
enhzflep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 313
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Yeah, gster hit the nail on the head every time there. The other thing about triangles is they're much, much easier and hence quicker to render. On a side note, it's not possible to have a non-planar triangle. Non planar polygons are a _real_ pain to process and light correctly.

There's just a hell of a lot less maths behind doing the calcs for triangles. As well as mental ray going a bit mental at some dogy subd topology converted from triangles, subd meshes are much 'lighter' and easier to manipulate and edit than ones that've been made from a mesh containing lots of triangles. Subds are also a much more powerfull way of editing, having the ability to affect areas with a weighting function, far better than say the sculpt tool does.

Trust me, write a scan-line renderer that will only handle triangles, then write one that will handle N-gons, with an upper limit of say 20 edges. As soon as you've done that, you'll realise just how lucky we are to have maya churn through almost anything you can chuck at it. Ngons are not fun to program for.

It can be well worth blocking out in quads, converting to subds to tweak and finalize before being converted back to polys and onto tris for a game engine. It's a very quick way of working. Just ask Kurt.


Simon.
enhzflep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 11:47 PM   #8
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Yeah Simon, forgot abut the render speed of tris, hence why there probably used on games, to squeeze those extra couple of FPS out ofthe graphics card.
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 11:59 PM   #9
vladimirjp
Subscriber
 
vladimirjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA
Posts: 1,871
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

everytime you use a tri, God kills a Puppy.
__________________
Image dump
vladimirjp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2007, 12:40 AM   #10
Acid44
Registered User
 
Acid44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,639
Thanks: 12
Thanked 186 Times in 179 Posts
Default

Originally posted by gster123
Not too sure about games to be honest.

I think that the main thing that you need to look into is the maximum poly count for the thing your importing, for example in GTA a car might be, say, 10000 polys max.

I think that mental ray in maya 8 can render tris. but prior to that it would ignore them.

How do you know I dont bark??
i assumed you dont bark...

ive seen cars people have made up to 30000 polys so i don think thatd be much of an issue

everytime you use a tri, God kills a Puppy.
that means god took out the humane society for my mclaren...

thanx for the help everyone
__________________
Acid44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2007, 12:41 PM   #11
The Architect
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: /dev/null
Posts: 891
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I thought the reason was that DirectX and most graphics cards could only render tris, not quads.
The Architect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2007, 12:44 PM   #12
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Very well could be, hence why they are converted via the game engine.
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2007, 12:46 PM   #13
j5ive
Subscriber
 
j5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sunny Ol' Wigan, UK
Posts: 752
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

I thought that the model was converted prior to being used in a game engine, as only few engine are capable of converting themselves, though I could be wrong.
__________________
If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand.
j5ive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2007, 01:39 PM   #14
publicFunction
Senior Software Developer
 
publicFunction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Posts: 1,701
Thanks: 1
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
Default

100% of game engines require to have any and all geometry triangulated prior to it it being inserted as a game asset. This goes from simple objects like a box to the 80,000 poly cars we see in games on the Next Gen Consoles.

As far as I have read the reason for triangulation is to do with the speed of the processors math calculations. CPU and GPUs can calculate tris faster than quads.

I dont think there is any other reason behind it to be honest, its all to do with realtime calculations of the geometry by the GPU and/or CPU.
__________________
Chris (formerly R@nSiD)
Twitter
When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will truely know peace - Jimmy Hendrix
Winner SM VFX Challenge 1
3rd Place SM SteamPunk Challenge (May 2007)
publicFunction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2007, 03:01 PM   #15
The Architect
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: /dev/null
Posts: 891
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I think that GPUs only render tris becuase its cheaper to design, manufacture and test (tris need less math, less math less transistors and therefore less cost), not becuase technology can't go fast enough. Anyways, the first Nvidia graphics chip, for a Japanese game console used quads I think (can't remember).
The Architect is offline   Reply With Quote

A little bit about who we are
Links you might find useful
Catch up with SimplyMaya
SimplyMaya specialises in Maya tutorials. We offer over 1,000 individual Maya training videos, ranging from basic Maya tutorials through to intermediate Maya tutorials. Our tutorials are created by instructors with industry experience and are designed to get you up and running in Maya quickly without making it seem like hard work.

Copyright © 1999-2015 SimplyMaya - vBulletin® Copyright © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.