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Old 25-02-2009, 04:39 PM   #1
iamcreasy
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Default GLock 18

I am a new modeler.Recently i started working with a MOD group.There i created a pistol(GLcok 18).I know for gaming the low poly the better.I started with low poly but failed to maintain to the last.
Also i think this model could not be usable.Because there could be lots of mistakes.Like zero face area, zero length edge etc etc.If i use MAYA's CLEANUP the is distorts the shape of the model.
I want to know the tactics to models for games,the common mistakes, the better way to model and to avoid mistakes.
This model has been rendered using MANTRA.But the file is attached.If u find a problem and any suggestion or anything that could improve my model, i will be glad to know.








NB: PLZ don't use this model for any other purpose.It is only for this forum's discussion only.

THANK YOU.
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: GLock 18

NB: PLZ don't use this model for any other purpose.It is only for this forum's discussion only.
[/b]
hehe, what would anyone do with it? btw, the file is not attached.

Houdini! cool, i just downloaded the apprentice thing cos i'm gonna give their competition a shot.
Mantra looks very similar to an AO render in maya. perhaps you should have just done that instead, or perhaps thats something you could find out about. you shouldn't have to switch from maya just to render something!
As for game models... dunno much about them.

Last edited by honestdom : 25-02-2009 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Re: GLock 18

AO render in maya
What is it?
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:27 PM   #4
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sorry, an Ambient Occlusion render pass
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:48 PM   #5
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Hi,

There's a tutorial here on simplymaya about low poly game modeling overhere .

And i think that game models have to be in tri's not quads, correct me if i'm wrong.

In your wireframe there's a face which has at least 8 edges.
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Old 25-02-2009, 08:33 PM   #6
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It doesn't HAVE to be tri's. Either you triangulate the mesh in Maya when you're done or the game engine does that for you. You should always strive for a good flow in the mesh with four-sided polys, and only have tri's where you know you can optimize the polygon count or to divide it better than the game engine.
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Old 25-02-2009, 08:34 PM   #7
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which game engine are you using? i know when i was working with Steam (ick) there was a plug-in to export stuff out to the engine and it would turn it into triangles. (although i used XSI rather than Maya for that)

there do seem to be a lot of edge loops that aren't even needed, i would point it out but i dont know where a mac's paint program is...

also, when you show wireframe you should just screen capture wireframe on shaded

i'm also going to say that this model is most likely doable within 2000 polys... actually i'd go so far as to say its doable in 500 (i'm not going to prove it, i'm just guessing)

if this is for an FPS game that the player will use then you don't actually need those faces at the front there, because the player will never see them.
but if the gun is going to be lying on the ground and in an enemies hand then have a model with all the faces
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Old 26-02-2009, 06:40 AM   #8
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Default Ambient Occlusion render pass

Ambient Occlusion render pass
Could u plz inform me how to do it?

Actually i am biased towards HOUDINI because there u can do stunning stuff in less time.Besides the Node based progression is really incredible.I guess u know if u have used houdini.

I am looking for good rendering and texturing tutorial.Could u inform me where can i find them?
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Old 26-02-2009, 11:29 AM   #9
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it's a 7.2 K model....i know Very high.

The mod is using a railgun which is abt 8.5k.If SOURCEcan handle THAT it can also handle this too.I know extra pressure.BUT CAN'T IT BE ACCEPTABLE.

if i use cleanup is distorts the original shape.Could u plz let me know how use it wisely.

Why i find dark shades on the gray surface in maya.(both in the viewport and in the render scence)

is there any specific procedure or rules(except low poly count) to follow.And if the are what are they?

How do i know a model is ready to go and it will not cause
any trouble in game engine or while texturing in other modeling softwares.

The file is attached.So, let me know where are the errors(except poly count)
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File Type: zip glock_18.zip (158.3 KB, 15 views)
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Old 26-02-2009, 08:05 PM   #10
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as far as i know, in maya 2008 you just add the object to a render layer and then right click, go to presets, and then select the Ambient preset

i'll take a look at your model when i get home.
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Old 26-02-2009, 08:22 PM   #11
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Default update

I made an update.

Use this instead if that.

It is 1K poly less then the previous.
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Old 27-02-2009, 09:51 AM   #12
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Originally posted by iamcreasy
it's a 7.2 K model....i know Very high.

The mod is using a railgun which is abt 8.5k.If SOURCEcan handle THAT it can also handle this too.I know extra pressure.BUT CAN'T IT BE ACCEPTABLE.
for what it is it's WAY too big, esp since the player wont even look at the gun in detail (i assume its not something you have on display that the players have to look at to go somewhere)
even if the railgun model you talk about is 8.5k is it something that is going to be looked at close up?
is it going to be static enough that players will notice little details?
how big is the rail gun compared to this puny little glock?

Originally posted by iamcreasy
if i use cleanup is distorts the original shape.Could u plz let me know how use it wisely.[/b]
never used it and don't know what the settings are for but i assume it works best when it can clearly tell where the quads should be. right now, if i try it edges get placed in funky places. its too ambiguous to clean up (at a guess)

Originally posted by iamcreasy
Why i find dark shades on the gray surface in maya.(both in the viewport and in the render scence)
[/b]
this is usually because of one of two reasons...
the soft and hard edges don't play with each other very well
or you have way too many faces with more than four edges. I'm guessing its the latter
Originally posted by iamcreasy
is there any specific procedure or rules(except low poly count) to follow.And if the are what are they?
[/b]
can't think of any... other than keep your faces four sided as much as you can... also have a good logical edge flow
Originally posted by iamcreasy
How do i know a model is ready to go and it will not cause
any trouble in game engine or while texturing in other modeling softwares.

The file is attached.So, let me know where are the errors(except poly count) [/b]
its ready when you're happy with it. not sure about predicting if it will cause trouble or not... by trouble i assume you mean like slowing down the game or causing it to crash.
i dont think models will cause the game to crash but if there is a lot going on in the game the model could slow the game down if its textures or polys are too high


anyway, i was going to just try this out in Source, just export it to xsi and then as an SMD file and seeing if it would work.
but before i tried that i had a look at your model
i thought it was all just one model but you've got lots of little pieces together. Not sure how that's going to work when you export it to the game engine...
since you mentioned source i assume you're using that?
i find that you have a lot of faces that you don't need (there are faces that are occluded by other parts of the gun, you don't need them because they will never be seen)
you have a LOT of edges that are totally redundant, even for a high res model
and as mentioned before... you have a LOT of n-gon faces (faces with n edges, but in this context n > 4)

i will do a little bit of tidying up just to show you what i think you don't need and post lots of pictures...

also, that link to low res game model tutorial that brains linked you to, it's helpful, but i dont think it will help you much in this situation. I can't remember if Kurt talked about any tips for low res models

if you build a high res model you can make a low res model and use the ultimapper... i mean the transfer maps.... once you've laid out UVs and you'll get normal maps
http://www.simplymaya.com/movie_page...tml?tut_id=156
here's a free tutorial from mike explaining the transfer maps
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Old 27-02-2009, 11:17 AM   #13
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didn't try it out in Source in the end, couldn't figure out why the plugins went missing

anyway, i took a few snap shots of an altered glock

take note that you should delete edges that don't change the shape of the model

you have to do this stuff manually

its a tough and long job ahead for you, but that's because you beveled your edges TOO much
i'd start over if i were you...

you'll notice in my attached picture in the lower left screen shot there are some selected edges. why do you even have them there in the first place? i assume its an accident of another operation you did somewhere else?
i only did a few changes (deleted edges mainly, i did add edges to the side of the gun as you can see in the top left screen shot)
it could be cleaned up a lot more than what i've done too


also, a tip for game models... if you can texture it then texture it.

also, the poly count after my changes was only 5499, you're was 6259, and that was just making changes on one HALF of the gun... imagine what would happen when you do the same to the other half
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Old 28-02-2009, 08:52 AM   #14
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When i export to "3D coat" frm maya by OBJ some there is some serious disturbance found.
But when i export the same OBJ to deep paint then the model shows no disturbance.it is perfectly all right with deep paint.But why so different?
[attached img no 1]

When i export to "3D coat" frm maya by FBX some there disturbance is found but less severe.
[attached img no 2]

Why this happen.

while rendering in houdini using OBJ causes black shades at random places.So, i used FBX whose output was good.

But why this happen?
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File Type: zip img.zip (163.5 KB, 8 views)
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Old 28-02-2009, 08:54 AM   #15
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Default OBJ and FBX

When i export to "3D coat" frm maya by OBJ some there is some serious disturbance found.
But when i export the same OBJ to deep paint then the model shows no disturbance.it is perfectly all right with deep paint.But why so different?
[attached img no 1]

When i export to "3D coat" frm maya by FBX some there disturbance is found but less severe.
[attached img no 2]

Why this happen.

while rendering in houdini using OBJ causes black shades at random places.So, i used FBX whose output was good.

But why this happen?
Attached Files
File Type: zip img.zip (163.5 KB, 7 views)
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