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Old 05-01-2004, 07:24 PM   #1
mindbend
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Default G5 vs. PC render speed

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I was just wondering why on earth render speeds are so much worse on the Macs. This seems to be the case among all the leading 3D apps.

This link at HE3D has a couple of G5 tests, which are still 2-3 times slower than the best (and comparable) PC. Ouch!

http://www.highend3d.com/tests/maya/...ge=2&sortby=os


Is this a result of the processor? Poor programming? Lack of priority for smaller market?

The reason I ask is because I'm really struggling right now with which way to go with Maya. I'm a die-hard Mac fan, but sheesh, the numbers are just painful. Plus, no sign of Unlimited on the horizon makes it tough to drop a couple of grand on Complete just to run it (slower) in my preferred OS.

On the other hand, I'd have to drop some coin on a good PC, so either way I'm going to have to spend some money.

I've been running PLE and made a fairly complicated scene. By using Bounding Box previews and such, it's quite manageable in preview, but the render speeds are TERRIBLE. I know it's 3D and it's always going to take a while to render stuff, but passing up a machine that's 3X faster is going to be tough.

Convince to stick with Maya on the Mac!
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Old 05-01-2004, 09:38 PM   #2
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Other than in desktop publishing and music industry markets, software developers don't treat the Mac as the primary platform. If you're lucky, software will get "ported over" to you.

We would love to take advantage of many of the Mac's features in my Engineering department, but the majority of the software we need is either vaporware or non-existant unless you're on a PC.

That said, if the NT release of Maya hadn't appeared when it did, I would be running at least one Irix workstation right now.

You've just gotta go with what Maya likes.

:bgreen:
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Old 06-01-2004, 05:24 AM   #3
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what's a "MAC"
oh yea, a fancy and flashy useless machine :\
hope they die s00n, because they suck ass (IMHO that is)
... but i'm all "OS war'ed out" so let mac users use ,acs if they like and let windows users use windows if they like, and let linux crush them all
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Old 06-01-2004, 03:18 PM   #4
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Thanks for the utterly useless information.

(Not you, James).
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Old 06-01-2004, 03:38 PM   #5
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The best way to avoid starting a computer/OS flame-fest is to recognize that there are multiple platforms for very good reasons.

Macs and PCs are just tools.

As are Crays...

Use the right tool for the job.

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Old 06-01-2004, 03:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: G5 vs. PC render speed

No PC/Mac flamewars, please!!!

I'd really like to see a good answer to Mindbends question:

Is this a result of the processor? Poor programming? Lack of priority for smaller market?
If anyone knows, please share!!!
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Old 06-01-2004, 04:42 PM   #7
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he should adress his Qs directly to apple.
who here is really going to know programming issues or cheeesy processors or care enough to really look into this kind of info. just because it renders poorly, even for G5s (fastest home user computers available, yeah right 0_o)...
bottom line; get an AMD opteron 240 and run a 64bit linux.

MAC = Computing for the not so computer savvy.
simple, cute, and ...that's it

more useless info ! hah

Close this Thread PLS. no more OS Wars, it's really getting redundant
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:28 PM   #8
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@mindbend and everyone else trying to keep this thread constructive:
Because there haven't been any major updates to Maya since the G5 was released, I would assume that there are no G5 optimizations in Maya at all, and that could be the source of many performance discrepancies. There is a lot of G4-related code in Maya right now, but those performance tweaks don't necessarily carry over to the G5. I'm not privvy to any insider information, but my guess is that the next major version of Maya (5.5 or 6 or whatever they hell they decide to call it) will hopefully have at least some G5 optimizations.

Also, I wouldn't do any performance testing with Maya PLE, mostly because it doesn't support dual processors. Create the same complex scene in Maya Complete, and you're probably going to see some performance increases, especially on a dual-proc system.

@vladimirjp:
If you're "OS war'ed out" as you say, then why did you even bother posting? Your comments are highly opinioned and not even remotely constructive. Mindbend posted an honest question looking for information. Your blanket statements on how Macs are "fancy and flashy useless machines" and how Macs are "for the not so computer savvy" don't help answer the questions and actually end up creating a flamewar. If you can't say anything useful, then don't post.
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:33 PM   #9
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Well said, Danny.

Also, thanks for the info on "why" the performance issues might exist. Even tho' I'm a PC (by necessity) user I am still interested in computing in general.

I still need a Cray...

Good post.
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:56 PM   #10
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danny-thanks for the support and attempts to keep this where it should be. I had a much different response lined up, but waited a while to cool off.

---------

Back on track. The following links are interesting to me and give me pause for future Maya and platform considerations.

https://renderman.pixar.com/products...er_mac_G5.html

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23quotes.html

That's pretty compelling.

It seems from this information that properly optimized 3D software can run quite well on the G5s. Maybe even exceptionally well. Maybe.

All I'm wondering is from a technical curiosity POV where the "problem" lies. I know people here don't necessarily have precise answers, but some may (and have shown) insight for conversation.

Outside of rendering, the three Macs I"ve tested PLE on have been amazing. Ultra-stable, I think I only crashed it once. Very fast in general editing and previewing. Things do slow down with big poly counts, but I assume that's normal. I'm not sure at what point I should expect slowdown. Those trees at denfo.net seem to be quite demanding. Does anyone have any info on what kind of on-screen poly counts one should expect for good performance? I know, such a vague question.

I am anxious to see the next substantial Maya update. I just can't comprehend why Alias would drop millions of dollars (that's my understanding anyway of how much they spent) to convert Maya to OS X only to watch it fizzle. That just makes no sense. Should Alias be able to provide parity in performance (relative to CPU, of course), they would have a ridiculously faithful audience and I'd be one of them.
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:43 PM   #11
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I strongly suspect that Danny is right about the lack of code taking advantage of the G5. However, the Alias quote in the second article hints that they are trying to get an 'optimized-for-G5' version of Maya out of the door.

(PS. I see you didnt get much useful info off the Alias user-user discussion forums )
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:27 PM   #12
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OMG! I downloaded the test scene and did a test render just for fun and I got 41 seconds!!! that means I'm 2 seconds slower than the guy in first place!! wow.. I didnt know that!

-Emo
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:08 PM   #13
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Heh! I wa wondering what your score would be.... congrats.
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:14 PM   #14
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Emo, I assume by your icon you're running a new Opteron? What's the specs on that? Nice and zippy obviously.

-------

On a side note. Are there some bare bones PC boxes designed for nothing but rendering? Any suggestions? Can they be integrated in a Mac environment where the design end could be on my Mac, but dumped off easily to the PC mini-Farm?
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:34 PM   #15
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Originally posted by mindbend
Emo, I assume by your icon you're running a new Opteron? What's the specs on that? Nice and zippy obviously.
yes, you're right... I built this PC just for Maya and so far I love it... it's:

Dual Opteron 244 (1.8GHz each)
1GB ECC Reg. PC2700
WD Raptor 36GB 10K RPM HDD (I gotta get another one for Raid 0 )

and um... the only thing that I'm lacking is a good Video card... right now I'm into modding out my car a little bit so all my money are going in that

-Emo
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