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Old 14-12-2008, 05:41 PM   #16
Jay
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Erm what are those tris doing in there? *cough* splutter* breaths heavily!!! quick get me the poly doctor!

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Old 14-12-2008, 06:37 PM   #17
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Odd the last post would not let me change the image so I had to create another reply...
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Old 14-12-2008, 06:43 PM   #18
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The tri's are there because maya has no useful tools to crease corners properly. Maya is OLD!

In modern poly modeling apps like modo you simply and painlessly select an edge and select the crease tool that actually works!

In maya you have two options add edges ALL the way around your model and end up with creases all around the model that you then have to spend hours trying to smooth out

or

do what I did which is to localize the geometry around the corners and live with triangles. It's a bugger to remove the triangles without adding lumps and divots.

Triangles are fine in hard surface models that are not going to deform.

So I don't see the point in spending 20 hours fiddling around trying to smooth out the geometry after making everything quads.
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Old 14-12-2008, 06:50 PM   #19
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Keep it cool dude, I was just shocked to see them. I didnt fiddle with those areas much, hence the reason why the canopy was separated from the body, it was done to cover those areas.

Edge creasing can actually be done with a subd in Maya, its been there for years, so maya isnt so old, its just people dont know about it.

Modo may be 'modern' but its not a regular in the studios right now, only in a few places, Im sure it will get there though. It does look bloody good


carry on, the model looks cool, though try and square up the cockpit a tad

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Old 14-12-2008, 07:03 PM   #20
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No prob Jay. I did not mean that to sound like I was mad at you. I honestly deplore using triangles but I feel Maya sometimes gives me no suitable alternative.

I know how to use subd creasing but subd creasing in Maya is awful. Every time you switch from subd back to poly you lose all your creasing.

I also do not like the poly crease tool.

The canopy is separated but I did not like the rounded corners after smoothing.

I could have left the model unsmoothed but I really don't like unsmoothed poly models tey alway render with odd siloettes and artifacts for me.

Here is the unsmothed wire frame again. The red marks are edges I would have to wrap all through the model just to tighten those corners.

Trying to smooth out the resulting creases in the model would be a living nightmare.
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Old 14-12-2008, 07:06 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Jay


carry on, the model looks cool, though try and square up the cockpit a tad

Jay
Do you mean the inner canopy frame corners?
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Old 14-12-2008, 07:15 PM   #22
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Np mate dont worry

I found that anyway with the corners, but if you keep the geo to a reasonable rez you should be a ble to square those up manually. If you have the scene files of what I did have a look at those

yeah the canopy edges thats right

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Old 15-12-2008, 11:42 PM   #23
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oh good i'm not the only one who has such problems with such triangles!

looks cool so far
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Old 16-12-2008, 03:37 AM   #24
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Well my obsessive compulsive side has kicked in and I am going to redo the fuselage.

If I was to use nurbs and byrails I could make a pretty close to perfect surface but I am keen to learn this box modeling method.

If you have a chance to see the "behind the seens 3 - hard surface modeling" from gnomon that guy does amazing things with lots of corners and uses a very similar approach to Jay. I just wish he would spend more time going over methods for these trouble areas.

Surfacing is also a chore for me. I cannot for the life of me figure how to use the sculpt polygon tool without simple destroying my mesh. I have tried playing with average vertices with no success.

Ultimately I end up creating cv curves connected along poly vertices and then loft or byrial through them and then convert the surfaces from nurbs back to polys.

Last edited by ctbram : 16-12-2008 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 16-12-2008, 03:44 AM   #25
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oops!

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Old 16-12-2008, 06:50 AM   #26
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- worked on the nose
- tightened up some of the canopy corners. plan on leaving the rear frame area rounded


Still getting a bit of pinching in the corners.

Lots of bumps and divots. Trying to smooth polygon surfaces is tedious in Maya.
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Old 16-12-2008, 08:51 AM   #27
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I'll dig into those problem areas next time. I think I over look those things because Im so used to dealing with these issues and have a way to work it out from the offset. But then its good to give you guys something to figure out too, I cant hold your hand all the time LOL, just kidding.

Modelling is one big Jigsaw, I even got caught out on the new Chef Ramsay tute while recording the modelling of the hand, but you know the pressure was on so I had to figure it all out on the fly, I couldnt stop as it was near the finish, talk about sweat!!

It happens to us all

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Old 16-12-2008, 08:52 AM   #28
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Post up a wire again of this I'd like to see the problem areas you have now as its not visible on the smoothed version, then I can make some suggestions....

now theres a service you wouldnt get from Gnomon...'buy the dvd and and we'll help if you run into trouble' I dont think so!! LOL

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Old 16-12-2008, 12:58 PM   #29
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It's looking really good
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Old 16-12-2008, 03:13 PM   #30
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Here are the wires Jay. I still have the tri's in the corners but I promise I am going to rework the geometry for the fuselage and try to clean some of them up.
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