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Old 28-07-2008, 09:15 AM   #16
alexanderH
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Wireframe on shaded just allows you to see the wireframe in your viewports. So you can take a screen shot like that and not have full depth and confusing wires.
You can also turn off backface culling, but that is a whole other option which I won't go into right now as I don't exactly remember how to do it.

ANY ways, if you want to show wires using the wireframe on shaded and taking a screen should work best for ya. Cheers.
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Old 28-07-2008, 11:47 AM   #17
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Oh, I see. That makes sense. Righto.

Any ideas on making that LCD TV better? I don't know how to make a kind of shiny plastic material.. what would I use? Blinn? Maybe I'll just search for a shader someone's already made.. heh. (that's the easy way out)

Though, I would like some practice in making materials, so... any pointers?

Thank you all
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Old 28-07-2008, 03:02 PM   #18
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the most noticeable thing about the tv is it is far too rounded.
A tv has buttons correct? where could you place the buttons? I know just looking at my tv, there are far too many cables and wires. It has ventilation holes. Even the base has some edge detail, a little valley if you will to trim it out. While the rod holding the tv to the base is rather simple, it is not a basic primitive.
If you'd like some reference images of what I'm talking about I can hook ya up no problem.

The most important thing I can identify with your tv that would add significant realism is the finer details. The things that your average person would notice.
For your best test, take it to people who do not work with 3D and ask them what looks off.

As for materials, from what I've noticed a lot of newer tvs, the flat panels and such. They often have a glossy plastic border/frame. But upon closer inspection it is a thin layer of clear plastic on a black plastic piece.

As far as your starting basic materials. A Blinn is a good place to start. there are so many different things you can do to adjust the look of it. But start with some basic values, if you know what they do, great. Render out a few with different settings, and show them to people, see what they think looks good. And go from there. If you need some specifics answered come back to these boards, there are many of us who'll help i'm sure. I'm getting better with lighting/texturing, but I know there are better folks on the boards here.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 28-07-2008, 03:37 PM   #19
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Reference images would be awesome if it's not too much trouble.

Thanks for your comments... I'll work on the TV more tomorrow. What do you think about the chair?
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Old 28-07-2008, 04:07 PM   #20
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Hey, if you're having doubts google up some reference images. Apart from the TV being a little round as alexanderH mentioned, the actual screen area runs into the plastic casing, they would actually be two different surfaces. The chair is really reflective, not sure about that. I think you're being a little hard on yourself, you'll get there as long as you stick with it.


Googled LCD TVs
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Old 28-07-2008, 04:18 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Bluethunder
Reference images would be awesome if it's not too much trouble.

Thanks for your comments... I'll work on the TV more tomorrow. What do you think about the chair?
When daylight hits in 8 hours, or whenever I wake up I will snap some reference for you good sir.
I will post you links as opposed to sending them to you so you can pick and choose what you want and not have to wait for all the full files to come around.
The DSLR comes in handy for reference photos.
Look for me in about 10 hours good sir.

Cheers.
As for the chair, I think it lacks proportion and definition.
The size of the cushion seems oversized and too hard. If it is a cushion you want it to look soft, and comfortable. Unless it is a public transit seat, I would think that your cushion should have softer edges and that its bulk should be a little more smooth from edge to inner. The back rest looks too rigid, not enough polys. Add some more geometry to it and see how it looks.

I think that most of your models so far are lacking geometry. You can skip out on it for the flat parts but keep in mind, unless you are working for games low the difference between 1,000 and 10,000 polys should NOT affect your system at all, so if you need 50,000 to make your object look like you could actually have it in your physical room then use them.
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Old 28-07-2008, 04:25 PM   #22
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i agree with GecT, the chair is too reflective

you know where to change the reflectivity of the material? If you go into the material attributes (there are a few ways to do that, either right click the object in the scene or use the hypershade) somewhere in there is a slider for reflectivity. for blinn materials its usually really high...

as for your couch pillows being so dense in the wireframe, you can convert nurbs to polys and click the option box in the menu, then you can convert it on the CVs instead of the default options.
then to add more detail you'd convert to sub-divisions and back to polys.
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Old 28-07-2008, 11:21 PM   #23
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reflectivity (for any shader that has it as an option) defaults at 0.5 - which is pretty high. hell most times even 0.15 feels like a lot... at the same time, usually the case is just that the reflections seem more prominent because they're crystal clear, and most everyday objects don't have that... they're usually blurred AND toned down, and most times that will make it more acceptable.
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Old 29-07-2008, 02:57 AM   #24
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Thank you all.

While I was creating that chair material... I did happen to tone up the reflectivity or specularity or something. The chair that I was modeling was slightly shiny, due to some sort of coating that was applied.

I'm wondering though.. I know I turned up the settings too much, and I attempted to fix it. However, I don't really know the difference between reflectivity, specularity, and the other settings of that sort...

Uh, the chair cushion was supposed to look slightly rigid, like in a furniture store, where you see things that are right out of the factory... They look completely unused and the cushions I think look much more inflated, and not sat on at all.

But I did over compensate. Thank you again. I'll work on changing that...

The chair back... Why do you think it's rigid? I know your opinion is much more proffesional than mine, but... what can I do to make it look less rigid? Adding more polygons (heh.. I don't know how to really do that other than "smooth" but that rounds everything. Would I use the "cut faces" tool?) would just make it seem more... curved, and not really less... rigid? Don't really know how to phrase that.. But, isn't the purpose of a back of a chair to be rigid, otherwise it would break off when you leaned back?

Sorry, I guess your phrasing just confused me a little.

If this post appeared even the least bit arrogant or anything, I completely apologize. I really only wanted to know why certain things should be changed. I do have the utmost respect for all of you.

Thank you for all criticisms (they help me learn, and after all, that's why I'm here!)
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Old 29-07-2008, 03:25 AM   #25
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Rounded or beveled edges gives objects a more natural and less less '"CG" look. The poly split and insert edge loop tools can be your friends.

I think this thread can help a bit when it comes to the smoothing thing.

http://forum.simplymaya.com/showthre...threadid=30440
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Old 29-07-2008, 04:05 AM   #26
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As I have sloppily outlined in Paint, I'll start with the legs. Notice how round the edges of them seem versus the crosser(support) between the front two. Also the bulge, if there is a bulge in the chair you had in mind or the one you are basing it off of, I can only imagine that this bulge would be round. Right now to me it looks like you have 1 vert just pulled out, as you can see the definition in the edges of the bulge.
Same with the cushion, there are visible lines and definition where I again would imagine it to be smooth and our round. Your objects have fairly hard edges which are highlighted by light and on the front of the cushion there is a dark line, darker then the cushion above and below it. That is due to the hard edge aka not enough geometry to blend one side to another.
And finally the back of the chair. Too rigid - is meant to mean again that you can see the geometry. I would imagine that the backs of your chairs were to smoothly flow from flat to curved at the top. Again you can see where the flat part stops and it appears to contain 2 polys to the end of the curve or 2 sections, whatever you choose to call them. Either way, I notice the definition and it just looks odd.
If you want to smooth out a curve for example but want the rest of the object to remain rather rigid and boxy, you have to add more geometry to the object around its edges to keep them hard.
You can use several tools to do this, split polygon tool, offset edge loop tool, split ring tool, cut faces, extrude, chamfer, and bevel.
I might suggest you check out youtube tutorials for box modeling among other things to learn. That one introduces a few of the tools I mentioned and should give you some idea of where you can go with box modeling skills.

I'll let you digest that, and in the meantime I believe I owe you some reference snaps of my tv. If you click on any of them you will be taken to the full size image which you can save or manipulate or do whatever you like with.


I wouldn't have you endeavor to create the wires just yet. Work on creating different shapes at the moment and thinking about how you can use different shapes to create objects. This is the back side of the tv, on the left side is the back of the attached speaker. You can kind of see here how it has a round back, and is connected to the tv through a rectangular prism like object but with rounded edges on the bottom and top.


Some more details, you can see the ventilation holes cut into the tv as well as the rear profile of the stand.


The ventilation and shape of the top back side of the tv.


The rear side of the left speaker. You can see how the shape of the unit itself blends into the shape that is visible from the front. It is relatively flat and then curves in towards the tv.


There isn't much special about the stand or the base, but notice how it is curved to give it some interest. Look how smooth it curves from the upper section to the lower section. Try to get that look with an object to see how you can have a smooth transition from two areas that look rather defined and hard.


This is the edge detail I was talking about earlier that is cut into the base of the tv.


This is the frame for the TV super close up so you can see what I was discussing. There is a section of plastic on the right side and a piece that is about 1/5 as thick infront of it. That tiny piece seems to be clear and glossy, while the thick part is black, with high specular and reflections. The clear plastic is used to distort the other pieces reflections while blurring it and refracting the light in different spots as well as protecting the tv itself.

[url=http://ahosking.com/3DAnimation/SimplyMaya/bluethunder/reference/tv/_DSC1850.jpg]
A shot from above the tv and the left speaker. The left side of the image is the front of the tv. This picture helps you see the actual shape of the speaker and again a miniature version of what I thought you might have been trying to achieve with your chair.
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Old 29-07-2008, 04:07 AM   #27
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And some More:


The lower front section of the tv. See how the border has blurred reflections?
Also some more shape of the base conector.


The rear 3/4 view of the base connector. A few added shapes for interest really.


A shot of the tv, you can see the curvature on the speakers as well as how the clear plastic on the border reflect/refracts light and blurs the reflections.


The rear 3/4 view of the base connector. A few added shapes for interest really.


Full shot of the back of the tv unit.


Top back corner of the tv, lots of shape and definition seen here.


Top front corner of the tv, buttons and more shape/definition seen.


Cheers,
Alexander
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Old 29-07-2008, 05:53 AM   #28
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Wow, thank you so much for all those great images! Must have taken a while. Thanks a trillion

Anyways, as I cannot seem to find my camera, I can't quite give you any pictures of mine, other than finding some pictures over the internet... Let me see....

Ok, well it's a samsung LNT4665FX . Here's a few pictures, but untill I find my camera.. the pictures don't seem to be very good. But here's a couple anyways.
See how the base is slightly different than yours? I was modeling that, but I think it would look more interesting with a hybrid of mine and yours (your base)

EDIT: sorry, I could only find one -.- I'll see if I can take a few pictures later.
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Old 29-07-2008, 06:28 AM   #29
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Having just the one image of your tv is fine for now, though if you want some more in-depth crits and comments I myself would like to see more of your model. However from what I can see here your base and connector rod are not proportioned correctly. What you'll notice about your tv(the physical one) is that its base is big enough to spread the weight of the tv out enough that the slightest movement should not tip it over. On your model though it looks to be too small. I'd say that it is too thick, but really that is a design element all to your self. I think that the size of the base is most important in achieving more realism. Also I notice the connection between the shaft and the base. Although the image is rather small I can tell that there is a rounded edge where the pipe meets the base.
With your pipe it looks to be too narrow from front to back, again like it wouldn't support the tv it is holding up, or if someone brushed up against it like the pipe might snap.
The overall framing isn't looking too bad but one thing this I think needs some work there is where the screen is and how it would connect to the frame.
For a first time at it, your headed in the right direction, no doubt about it. What You might consider trying is pulling the verts of the screen back a bit further and then creating a plane infront of them but behind the foremost part of the frame. That way you get a hard difference between the frame and the screen. I can't say for sure but I believe if you look at it you can see that the screen of your actual tv is probably about a quarter inch to half inch bigger on all sides than what is actually viewable. Why? because the connection and fastening of the screen is done inside the case and not to the frame itself. The frame hides some of the things that are necessary but not so aesthetically pleasing.

I hope that helps.
Cheers.
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Old 30-07-2008, 07:16 PM   #30
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Originally posted by Bluethunder
Thank you all.

While I was creating that chair material... I did happen to tone up the reflectivity or specularity or something. The chair that I was modeling was slightly shiny, due to some sort of coating that was applied.

I'm wondering though.. I know I turned up the settings too much, and I attempted to fix it. However, I don't really know the difference between reflectivity, specularity, and the other settings of that sort...
the coating would probably have been varnish

reflectivity is how reflective something is. I assume everyone knows what reflectivity is since its a common everyday word. Meaning it's hard to explain :p, but basically the more reflective something is the easier it is to see other objects in what you're looking at.
Think mirrors and the aweful glossy monitors. You can see yourself in them. And since they have high reflectivity (why anyone would make monitors so f*****g reflective is beyond me, you can't work with them unless its night) you can see clearly the things the surface is facing.

specularity is related to the highlight on the material.
in the material attributes you have eccentricity, which deals with the diffuse of the highlight. That being how spread out it is... generally, the wetter the surface the smaller the specularity.

specular roll off looks like its more of how strong the highlight is


at least i think i'm right. I'll have to read up on it again sometime... i can't remember where i found the page to explain this stuff...

if i made a mistake, feel free to correct me
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