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Old 06-09-2009, 02:47 AM   #46
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Originally posted by hammer.horror
I work for a company that do a lot of mainstream movies and commercials. You will never do something you have created, it will 99.99% copying something that has been designed by some other people.
I don't necessarily mean it has to be of your own design, but they need to know you can work off of original concepts, and add something that might need to be added.

While you maybe be working on pre-existing models (especially for the commercials). You still may have to create something that is unique. Even though it is not of you own design. It's all about being a well rounded artist. And sure, as a low ranking member of a studio, you may not be given too much choice on what to model, but as you move up there may be a better chance to expand, and maybe add personal touch to a project. When I wrote the post earlier, I had a different type of situation in mind, not a studio that does tid bits for movies, and some commercials, I was aiming more for studios working on games, and studios working on effects for movies. Places where truly unique designs come to life. Places where your imagination can strive.

Just because a lot of places don't let stray too far from the guidelines, doesn't mean you should limit yourself. Your portfolio should be an expression of yourself, and your art. I don't care what you do, or other people do.... what I and most other CG enthusiast do is art.... or at least that what we aim for.

I know a job is a job, and you must do what the client want, and I'm not arguing that point.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:19 PM   #47
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Originally posted by Mayaniac

While you maybe be working on pre-existing models (especially for the commercials). You still may have to create something that is unique. Even though it is not of you own design.
but you will always work from references. which someone has drawn up.

Originally posted by Mayaniac

It's all about being a well rounded artist. And sure, as a low ranking member of a studio, you may not be given too much choice on what to model, but as you move up there may be a better chance to expand, and maybe add personal touch to a project.
you wont have to add a personal touch. there are people paid way more money to do that, they are called directors.

Originally posted by Mayaniac

not a studio that does tid bits for movies, and some commercials, I was aiming more for studios working on games, and studios working on effects for movies. Places where truly unique designs come to life. Places where your imagination can strive.
haha, you make it sound like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory!

just so you know, my company don't do tid bits for movies. I suggest you try to organise a tour of a studio near you, if you want to learn how a movie/game is made...
also, when you talk about effects for movies are you meaning dynamics?


I think learning the basics gives you a better foundation to move on and create original characters and whatever. If i were an employer i would like to see that someone is able to do the simple stuff well, rather than a full character with lots of mistakes. I believe that would make you a better all-round artist.

Dango's has made a really good start, all i was suggesting is that he look at references. it may help him decide how he wants to move on in zbrush.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:47 PM   #48
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Hahaha, a very interesting debate going on!

I've been using references, the brain part was done using an Alpha I made from an actual image of a brain, and I've been using the reference to enhance it from there. And I will be using references for other parts of the body, I had already planned to do that where needed.

Apart from that, I don't presume I will ever be good enough to work in the industry, I'd love to, and will practice modeling both simple reference based objects (which I already do but don't bother posting here as I don't think it'd be as interesting for people to look at) and more creative models too.
First and foremost I'm an artist, I create stuff, whether it be in 2d, 3d, storytelling, or any other form because to be honest I have to. I don't really have much choice in the matter, I get bored, frustrated and a little depressed if I can't!

So if I ever do get good enough to enter the industry, at any level, I'd be constantly striving to get to a creative position. Concept modeler or Creative consultant, that kind of role.
If I don't get there, so be it, I'll get some people together and write, direct, and create my own animated features.
May sound far fetched to some, but I bet the people who have already done it, some from nothing, didn't let it stop them trying!

Anyhow, next post should be an update of some progress hopefully.....lol
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:51 PM   #49
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Originally posted by hammer.horror
but you will always work from references. which someone has drawn up.
Your just agreeing with what I said here. Even if you don't design the concept, you will still have to bring it to life. Employers need to know you can take an original design and bring it to life. Not be sat stuck because you've only ever done pre-existing objects. You make it sound like there's nothing behind what these people do. Taking a 2d concept and bringing it to life in 3d (successfully) is extremely hard. And demands a lot of creativeness from the artist. So, even if it isn't his design, he still has to make it work.



you wont have to add a personal touch. there are people paid way more money to do that, they are called directors.
Do you know how much a director has to do? He doesn't micro manage all of these sort of things. Of course he has a plane and a set design for the project. But it will usually be the Art director, or team head. In this situation you may not be adding touches of your own, but you will be responsible for adding the required touches, and again, making things work.



haha, you make it sound like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory!

just so you know, my company don't do tid bits for movies. I suggest you try to organize a tour of a studio near you, if you want to learn how a movie/game is made...
also, when you talk about effects for movies are you meaning dynamics?
There is a lot more to effects than just dynamics.... perhaps you should take a tour of your own studio to find that out. I'm referring to the special effects that you see in movies, and on TV.... why would I be referring to dynamics?.... that isn't the subject of this discussion.


I think learning the basics gives you a better foundation to move on and create original characters and whatever. If i were an employer i would like to see that someone is able to do the simple stuff well, rather than a full character with lots of mistakes. I believe that would make you a better all-round artist.
Yes, I agree with you here (mostly), but you still need to be able to create full characters, that are perhaps unique in nature (original design). I agree you need something recognizable in your portfolio, but a lot of characters are going to be human, or at least humanoid, is this not going to be recognizable enough?

Dango's has made a really good start, all i was suggesting is that he look at references. it may help him decide how he wants to move on in zbrush.
Right.

Sorry Dango, for taking over the thread

I will only post back when you update next.
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Old 06-09-2009, 06:40 PM   #50
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LOL!

No worries for the thread take over Steve, I'm finding it quite interesting!

I would just like to point out, that from my side of things if I was to aim for a job in the industry, I'd be going for a concept artist job, which would involve a lot of creativity, working from rough ideas with a director and the art staff, although I also do realise that to get there a lot of modelling from references and doing everyday objects, scene extras etc would be the path to that. So I'll be practising both sides.

But for now as I'm only on my 3rd full model, I'm not going to worry too much anyway, I have plenty of time to work on all the different aspects of 3d, and mostly I'm just going to have fun with it!

Stressing about how to get a highly paid job in 3d will only hinder the process in my opinion, if I'm meant to get there I will, I'll just keep studying and enjoying it while I do!
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Old 06-09-2009, 07:18 PM   #51
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Been playing about with him a bit, as the back section probably won't be changed much thought I'd try out some scales to see how they would look, I like them but still not too sure, if I do keep them I'll define them quite a bit more to give them some depth and make them stand out, and as I've not posted a full shot of him in Z, here's one for now.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:09 PM   #52
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Make his head bigger the rest looks good
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:00 PM   #53
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Well I had been making some progress, until I hit save and Zb decided to screw up whilst it was saving! Going to have to go back to a previous version and re-do what I had done as the file won't open now.... Luckily I'd saved often!
I had just got a screen grab before that happened, so here's what direction I was going with the face, will probably get it close to this again anyway.
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:54 PM   #54
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Looks good man!

I like the details on the back end of it.

Yeah, I have had ZB do that to me too. When it crashes it sometimes corrupts the file I'm working on.

Luckily you didn't lose too much work.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #55
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Cheers Steve,

Unfortunately the details of the scales got lost with the crashing, (apart from the ridge bits along the two spines) but I've managed to re-create the work on the face and am happy it's halfway back to where it was!

Here's the re-created render....
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:20 PM   #56
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Started doing a bit of work on the body today. getting the muscle flow a bit better, and trying to work out where muscles would be if this creature did exist! lol

Hopefully I'll get something that doesn't look too unrealistic by the end!
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:38 PM   #57
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Shaping of the underside almost done, though I need to sort out the neck muscles a bit....
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:49 PM   #58
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Muscles are looking gr8!
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:58 PM   #59
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Yep, looking pretty cool so far...

In my humble opinion (yeah, I didn't abbreviate it...) I'm not sure about the "abs" under the thorax or abdomen... actually I know this is a fictitious character, but in insects, the legs come from the thorax, then the larger abdomen extends back from there... so I guess you're diverging from that a bit.

Anyway, I was going to say that I think the underside near the legs should have muscles more like what you've got on the chest, than abs. Adductor muscles, to be precise, stretching from the midline to the upper parts of the legs. Just a suggestion.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:08 PM   #60
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i might be wrong but i thought quadrupeds generally had deep barrel chests rather than the flatter shallower chest we bipeds have.... correct me if i'm wrong.

...also i agree, not sure i like the abs under the abdomen.
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