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Old 19-09-2005, 07:23 AM   #91
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hey jay, if i understand your posts correctly, do you model in poly and then convert to subD? when you model in poly, do you use smooth proxy? and then how do you bind your model then?
what i do is, i model in smooth proxy. separate low and hi res. after creating joints and iks, i bind smooth mesh via smooth skin bind. i parent the low res to the joints, and just keep them as per refernce for quick animation. is there any better way?
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Old 19-09-2005, 11:56 AM   #92
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Ive not had that problem.

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Old 19-09-2005, 10:29 PM   #93
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I have serious problem which I canīt figure out for myself. need help on this.

the whole skeletonīs joints have zero-rotation for bindingpose purpose and local rotation axes as well as rotationlimits have been setup. I added a locator for forward kinematic control in the hand, ex-/imported the hand for mirroring to the other side. it then happend that one specific joint has weird rotation values. I canīt zero out those values without affecting the fingers controlled by set driven keys. Freeze Transform could not be applied because R_Hand_thumb1.rotateX has incoming connection. I cannot delete this joint either and recreate it, cause if done so the next joint down the hirarchy is sort of taking over the weird rotation values.


hope there are some suggestions on this, thanks in advance!
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Old 19-09-2005, 10:40 PM   #94
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donīt strive! there has happend big shit when -1x scaling the joint hirarchy. every joint rotates in the opposite direction as the rotate tool is indicating.
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Old 19-09-2005, 11:05 PM   #95
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hm.. there seem to be only 2 alternatives. either I can use the set driven keys moving the knuckles, or I can orient the handjoints' local rotation axis and then rotate the knuckles in the right directions but the set driven keys are useless in this case...


is there any chance to copy a hand with set driven keys on it and mirror it to the opposite side of the skeleton - and use both - set driven keys and normal FK on the knuckles? or do I have to set up the animated FK on L_hand and R_hand one after another?
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Old 20-09-2005, 03:15 AM   #96
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I like what you do here Falott and I think you're making great progress. I wish I had all the technical knowledge to answer all of your questions, but the truth is I don't.

However I have incorporated into my workflow the following when scaling in negative X (ie duplicating/mirroring).
Always freeze transformation immediately to keep things clean. If I want pivot back at origin 0,0 also a reset transformations immediately after. This is perhaps not so good for animation purposes and more in modeling
But by all means clean up all you can with Freeze Transformations.

Supposedly there are some tricks to prevent the rotations and joints to go the wrong way with some preparations but I am not experienced enough I'm afraid.

Maybe the answer is in locators? read up on them and see if it helps. Try something like FT, set up a locator in 45 degrees (like arms in half T split), parent joint to locator and see if it helps clean up things faster. Just a wild shot.
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Old 20-09-2005, 07:13 AM   #97
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i don't quite get you, but here's what might help.
i think the problem is that you can't freeze the transforms on the shoulder joint that you have shown. if that is the case, than you can do the following.
without selecting anything hit ctrl+g in your hypergraph. this will create a null node. then, point-snap the null to your joint location. then, parent the null to your joint. then do freeze transforms on the null. this will ensure that the orientation of the null and the joint are exactly the same. then, select the null, make it a child of the joint immediately above the shoulder joint, in your case, will be R-arm1_collarbone.
now, select the shoulder joint, and then make it a child of the null, which in turn is the child of the collar bone, which was always the parent of the shoulder. this way, you are adding a transform compensation node in between your collar and shouldr joint. and since your null is already in the same transformation space as your shoulder joint, your shoulder joint's channel box attributes will return to zero.
though, i don't know whether it will work for you or not.
but, might. give it a try if you haven't already
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Old 20-09-2005, 09:24 AM   #98
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thx AlphaFlyte

- for your thoughts. Iīm not that experienced as you might think. the problem here is, since I have blendweighted the knuckleJoints when I set driven keys, those joints have a input connection from the locator which controls the movement of the fingers. and as soon as a joint has an input connection the operation Freeze Transformation cannot be applied on the whole joint chain anymore.


utpal

I tried it with the null node. did exactly what you told but the opposite thing was happening. when parenting the sholder joint to the null node which has all 0 values, this nullNode got those funky rotation values inherited from the shoulder joint.

at least you pointed one thing out for me now
color bone - not equal - collar bone



thx to both of you guys!
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Old 20-09-2005, 10:26 AM   #99
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this is the kind of opposite rotation after scaling the joints I canīt manage to fix. mirroring the joints doesnīt copy the inputconnections. and duplicating forces me to scale the joints in a minus direction.. there is now way out!

how do others mirror joint chains with set driven key in it?
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Old 20-09-2005, 11:22 AM   #100
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I found this info


Mirror Bad - if you have already set keys on the left hand and want to mirror to the right hand...DO NOT USE MIRROR...you will also lose all your set data. Select the joints and locator....export them....then import them back into your scene...select them all again and group them....then in the maya attribute editor (on right side of screen) type a negative 1 into the scale value of what ever axis you want to mirror about.....and now you have a mirrored working right hand.


at that side

http://www-viz.tamu.edu/students/luk...n/Present.html



but again, this workaround doesnīt prevent the scaling of every jointīs local rotation axes in a negative direction. SDK is working fine, but FK is useless/extremely unintuitive on the duplicated hand.


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Old 22-09-2005, 07:21 PM   #101
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hey jay, if i understand your posts correctly, do you model in poly and then convert to subD? when you model in poly, do you use smooth proxy? and then how do you bind your model then?

Hey Utpal

Sorry, its such a big thread that I missed your question completely. Yeah I model in poly for the lower/base level then convert to Subd about halfway thru to achieve a models' form especially since Im mainly modelling characters. If I decide to bind a straight sub d it will have a wrap deformer which is weighted as best possible, then I will correct that using extra driven blend shapes for a better deformation. Its alot of work. But I have been known to convert the subd to a hi res poly model bind and weight that then use a lower res bits parented for speed for the poses/animation etc. I've actually been playing with the idea of the smooth poly option as youve mentioned but with added extras, for that bit of extra sexiness.

Apologies to Fallot for taking up his thread with my crap.

Best regards
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Old 22-09-2005, 07:58 PM   #102
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Falott

Ive been looking thru my rigs here, and concerning the arm duplication ect, this type of thing is only really done on the foot set up as you are not 'mirroring the joints but merely moving then on translation in world space.

I have been shown a couple of ways to do the arms, BUT on all occasions the joint chains, orients plus iK etc were done before any SDK work was applied. Mainly the reasons are because the joint orients are facing opposite each other, minus x and positive x for example in the case of arms.

If you are concerned with the mirroring of joints, because of orientation, I would mirror one side, put that on a temp layer and redraw the chains, pain in the arse but worth it. Rigs and setup are probably one of if not the hardest part to do as its so damn fiddly. The first character I did for a production pipeline took me a month solid every day for 9hrs. I look at it now and it its holding well but I know I can do it better next time. The team I work with are happy with it though. Heres a pic with a decent pose.




Cheers
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Old 22-09-2005, 10:31 PM   #103
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.
this is the kind of opposite rotation after scaling the joints I canīt manage to fix. mirroring the joints doesnīt copy the inputconnections. and duplicating forces me to scale the joints in a minus direction.. there is now way out!
u can select the joint u want to reverse the orientation, and add a boolean attribute to the rotate channel u want to reverse and call it "flipRotateManip" and set it to "1" then ur rotation will be reversed. making it like the original joints
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Old 23-09-2005, 09:01 AM   #104
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vladimirjp

thx for the boolean hint. sounds logic and tried that a minute before. it doesnīt work. if the boolean attribute is once applied (rotateY) the Y-axis is locked with 1 (which might mean boolean incoming connection) but it cant be rotated anymore. X,Z no problem but Y is fixed.


Jay

I guess this forum is here for answering questions, so donīt hesitate answering to Utpal.


I have one last question because I give up on this for now. maybe the answer comes later without efforts. Iīll do SDKs on every finger on itīs own in the future.

Jay, you have pretty many control attributes on your left arm I can see. now what would you do to bring the same attributes with equal movement to the other hand?

(is it even SDK or blendshapes? if itīs blendshapes just forget this question.)


thx for the support you giving me guys!
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Old 23-09-2005, 12:56 PM   #105
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Fallot

Id probably copy the settings into a text doc then change all from left to right, then set up the numeric values on the SDKs for the opposing hand again copied from the left but again change the orientation from positive to minus (depending) then just copy and paste each one accordingly.

Why not go to Jason Schleifers site at www.jonhandhisdog.com and ask him, he was a td on the Lord of the rings movie as well as a lead animator, he may be able to help you.

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