Maya 2020 fundamentals - modelling the real world
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# 76 16-04-2009 , 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by tweetytunes
Thats not teck correct. A poly is any surface with a normal

Only game engines counts tris as polys. Just look at Zbrush/mudbox - that also counts quads as polys

shhhhh, i knew that :p

dango, you still count the triangles as far as i'm aware.....that's what everyone else said

nice detailing work, be nice to see what you'll do with the front of the ship




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# 77 16-04-2009 , 10:46 PM
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I just don't want to get to the point of having so many polys I can't add anything more, or add any more detail.

this doesn't make much sense. the more polys you have the more detail you could add.

Also from what I've read online and in books it's good practice to keep your poly count low and still get a smooth, clean model. I could be wrong but it doesn't seem to make much sense having a billion polys if you can get the same results from one with far less.

i know this. what i mean to say is that if you are a good modeller you would not have to watch your poly count as you would only work at a level of detail that is manageable.

I think with your model it could be a lot smaller in terms of poly count (unless you are smoothing it to render and then undoing) you also have a lot of wasted detail in it. for example the pipes connecting to the grubs (not sure if they are the grubs).

The detailing imo, is becoming a bit repetitive. the human eyes is drawn to repeating patterns. you have a lot of extrude out, scale in, extrude in, duplicate special. I understand its the nature of your design tho user added image

don't want to sound harsh but i think its better than saying "good job" or "keep at it" whatever.

...also do and occlusion render. don't fall into the habit of using sun and sky for everything.

...last thing, don't you think your ship is a little large for a dirt map to have any effect?

# 78 16-04-2009 , 11:05 PM
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All crits are welcome Hammer so thanks for giving your honest opinion.
I'm not sure about the whole poly count issue, I'm just trying to keep it down at this early stage so later on it won't become a problem if I want to add more.
I'm not smoothing it to render and then undoing, that would be pointless as I'd have a bit of a problem when I got to the final stages and my computer couldn't handle it!
Why exactly would I do that?!

I'm happy with the way I'm modeling for now, it's only my second projects and am getting no really bad crits this time.
And I haven't really done much of the detailed work yet which will involve using other objects, rather than just extruding,scaling as you have said. Fair enough if that's what you think, I'll keep it in mind.

Also, I don't believe there is such a thing as wasted detail, this model isn't just for this comp, no models are, it'll be used for other things in the future that will involve close ups.

The sun and sky is just so I don't waste time at this stage, once it's textured I'll be sorting out a space enviroment and maybe the Earth below it, not sure at the moment.

I've got a lot to learn but I figure I shouldn't try to run before I can walk.

I don't think a dirt map will have no use, blast damage, and other effects will be large enough to be visible I think, will see later down the line.

Thanks for your comments though Hammer, it all helps in some way or other!
user added image


Last edited by Dango77; 16-04-2009 at 11:11 PM.
# 79 16-04-2009 , 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Dango77
All crits are welcome Hammer so thanks for giving your honest opinion.
I'm not sure about the whole poly count issue, I'm just trying to keep it down at this early stage so later on it won't become a problem if I want to add more.
I'm not smoothing it to render and then undoing, that would be pointless as I'd have a bit of a problem when I got to the final stages and my computer couldn't handle it!
Why exactly would I do that?!

my poly count is more or less the same as yours now, and i've smoothed it.
I think you are missing my point which is - it is easier to adjust things when you have a mesh that is less dense.
why exactly would you smooth then undo? well you are quite right i believe autodesk added the smooth preview button in maya 2008 which means that we don't have to do this anymore. (although i started learning maya in version 2008!)


Originally posted by Dango77

Also, I don't believe there is such a thing as wasted detail, this model isn't just for this comp, no models are, it'll be used for other things in the future that will involve close ups.

i guess if you are doing close ups its not wasted.

the guy who taught me maya always said that he would have a laugh at juniors who would model every screw and whatnot for a shot that didn't require it.

# 80 16-04-2009 , 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by hammer.horror
the guy who taught me maya always said that he would have a laugh at juniors who would model every screw and whatnot for a shot that didn't require it.

True enough if you are doing it for a client,etc, but if you are like me you aren't doing it just for the shot, your doing it because it has to be done!
I can't help it, it wouldn't feel right unless I'd included everything I wanted in it,within my pc's limits.
Also as I said, if it's a model for personal reasons I think it's good to add all that you can, you never know if you'll want to animate it, or use it in some other way.

# 81 17-04-2009 , 01:54 AM
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About the tris versus faces poly count thing, I don't know anything about the technical rules about counting, but if you have only quads and maybe some tris, you're only going to have maximum twice as many tris as faces. Does it make a big difference in your counting? I would think the poly count would be more a question of orders of magnitude (100 000s vs millions etc).

# 82 17-04-2009 , 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by stwert
About the tris versus faces poly count thing, I don't know anything about the technical rules about counting, but if you have only quads and maybe some tris, you're only going to have maximum twice as many tris as faces. Does it make a big difference in your counting? I would think the poly count would be more a question of orders of magnitude (100 000s vs millions etc).

I'm really not too sure either Stwert, I guess really as long as your pc can handle it, it's not overly important for still shots like this, but I was just interested as to how say a game company or film company would count them, for speed of animation etc.
Hopefully someone will settle this with a correct industry verdict!

# 83 17-04-2009 , 01:49 PM
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Thought I'd post a link to a large size of the model as the details probably getting lost a bit too much now...

Large

# 84 20-04-2009 , 02:31 AM
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Not much got done this weekend, just a bit more detailing,and studying a bit about UV layouts, will get more done today hopefully, large version link included....

Large Version

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Last edited by Dango77; 20-04-2009 at 02:34 AM.
# 85 20-04-2009 , 02:38 AM
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does it only have one engine?
it looks like it should have two at the top, but then it should also have an engine to balance it i think... looks like it might start spinning in circles with such a large engine not in the center of the ship. i'm not saying put the engine in the center but just have other engines to keep the bottom up to speed with the top

what does it look like from the top and back and bottom?




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# 86 20-04-2009 , 02:51 AM
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Hi Chirone,

I have actually tried it with another engine on the top, but the overall outline, mixed with other elements of the ship made it look like a cartoon monkeys face from the front...lol.

I'll give it some thought again though and see what I come up with,I was considering making a couple of smaller ones and putting them at the bottom, it never actually lands anywhere so doesn't need landing gear, it just docks onto an even bigger ship along with a couple more of them to make up a massive living entity.

Hopefully I'll get to model all of that oneday... Doubtful it'll be for this comp!

I'll do a couple of renders of it from different angles and post them in a while, need to add more detail to make it look right (to me) in all the other angles.


Last edited by Dango77; 20-04-2009 at 03:21 AM.
# 87 20-04-2009 , 02:55 AM
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Here's a four panel view for now to get the basic idea, I can't be arsed to render it from the other angles until it's got all it's detailing done.

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# 88 20-04-2009 , 04:17 AM
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This is how I'd originally imagined the engine set up to be, but had been toying with several different ideas and trying them out.
I'm liking it this way and may keep it. Sometimes your initial feelings can be right, I'll make a final decision before I start doing the layout and texturing I think.

Here's the link:

Tri Engine Set up

# 89 20-04-2009 , 11:39 AM
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Looking really cool!

# 90 20-04-2009 , 12:28 PM
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Thanks Mike!

I guess all the late nights slaving over a hot keyboard are paying off...lol

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