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Old 12-03-2005, 06:49 PM   #1
junkyBob
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Default Lighting sugestions?

Hi there all,
I have just purchased 70 points, and was looking for tutorials on indoor lighting in detail. I am mostly interested in lighting a room using Maya Software render. I am also interested in how to convert the room lighting into light maps. Eventually my final project will be in shockwave which is very important to use light mapping techniques if you want to include shadows and reflections.

I was thinking of downloading the spider tutorial. I here that it includes lighting though in its' description, it sounds more like it goes into more depth on the modeling and texturing part. I haven't seen any videos in the lighting and rendering section except for light linking. Though this is probably a handy video to have but it doesn't go into details on lighting indoor scenes.

Also as to the basic 3 point lighting tutorial by Mike, I am not sure of this either. Reason being is, it says it is a good tut for all lighting situations, though I wanted to ask what are your opinions on how I could use this for a interacticve indoor scene? Another words, from my experience searching through other tutorials, some of them say that 3 point lighting is only good for still shots. Though once you move the camera then you will need to readjust your lighting.

So all in all, any help would be great.
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Old 12-03-2005, 10:43 PM   #2
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I downloaded the basic three point lighting tut, and I thought that this tutorial was great, thanks to Mike . Though I have a couple of questions.

1. I see that Mike uses 3 directional lights, 1 for the main source, 1 for the fill light, and 1 for the back lighting. I tried doing this with a square kitchen light and I guess because I have so many objects such as the oven and cabinets it was really hard to make anything half decent.

Yeah ok, if any of you read my post in the WIP forum about lighting a room it might appear from each update I was gettign the hang of it. Though in reality, it seem a little easier with a a basic lamp fixture then those square ceiling light fixtures that are most commonly used in kitchens. In addition, what really threw me off in the previous thread in the WIP forum area, I forget who it was but they had mentioned it would be best to have your decay rate set to "quadratic" with a higher intensit number on main light source and use very low intensity lights for filling in the darker areas of the room. It seemed in my opinion that it was all fine and dandy when I was lighting a simple room. Though I am really having a rough time lighting my kitchen.

So I guess what I am asking is if you could give me some pointers on how I can light the fixture in the picture down below? (note I made the lighting to a higher intensity ONLY so that you guys can see all my objects.)

2. My next question in this post is that in the tutorial, meaning same one from above, I see that Mike also shows using the env sky light. Though Mike had mention that this is a plug-in that you can download. So my questions is, I am not sure why he states you need to download this plug-in when it is already included in Maya or is he talking about another type of sky light?

3. And the last question in this post is, what would the 3D room enviroment node be used for and which connection of a lambert should I connect the 3D Room enviroment onto. Meaning should I connect it to Color, incandenance, ambient etc?
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Old 12-03-2005, 10:53 PM   #3
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Okay, I'm still learning lighting myself (not mention modeling, texturin, skinning, etc), but I think you might be able use point lights for the recessed lighting above the bar area and for the flourescent light in main area, either a series of point lights to simulate the length of the bulbs or if you want that rectangular cast, maybe an area light. I think the secret is going to be more lights and lower intensities. I want to see how you go about this, so keep posting.
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Old 13-03-2005, 12:56 AM   #4
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hey thanks,
I am tring to avoid using area lights so most likely I try using point lights. Though if it doesn't work out then I'll try using an area light. In addition, I also notice that without rendering, pressing the 7 key in persp view I always notice that the light is brighter and the lighting looks a lot more even which is what I am looking for then when it is rendered. So I am also thinking maybe seeing I start with my fill lights first and see if I can get the lighting more even in my renders. Then worrry about my main source light and shadows.

I want to see how you go about this, so keep posting.
no problem dude. I'll also let you guys know how my thinking concept is going to work out.
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Old 13-03-2005, 06:00 AM   #5
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Well I didn't mean for this to become a WIP type of post but I thought I keep this in here considering I am still asking questions. Anywho, here's what I came up with.

What I did was I created about 12 point lights set the decay rate to quadratic, set the intensity to 30. How I got this number was I started with one point light and I guessed a number of 50. I did a render on to first make sure my light was not to close to any of the walls or cabinets. Then I positioned the rest of the 11 uniformally into rows and colums, 3 coloms and 4 rows. I then made sure of 2 more things to keep in mind. The first was I wanted to keep the concept of keeping the lights hitting in all directions evenly. Meaning if I had the lights too spaced out then I would see that their would be gaps of darker areas between the spaces of the lights. However I also didn't want them too close either, otherwise this would create "hot spots". The second thing is I wanted to make sure that these lights were not too close to other objects, which would also cause "hot spots". So with all those lights at first the intensity was set at 50, it was to bright and I also figured that anything below 25 would be to dark. So thats how I came up with the idea of setting my lights intensity to 30.

Once I had that, I then was keeping in mind that my walls have a yellowish tint to them. So I set all of the 12 lights in that same direction of color. The concept of using lighting in any 3D modeling program is that you have to keep in mind that light in real life bounce of other objects that get in there way. Though in these modeling programs you will need to create them. So thats where I got the idea of setting my main sorce light to this yellowish tint.

Then once I did that, I noticed that the counter top of the cabinets, the floor and some of the walls where too dark. So I then started laying some lights above the counter top with a much lower intensity about 10 with also keeping the decay rate to quadratic.

I then created 2 directional lights. The first was for the floor which I rotated the light faciing towards the floor and set its' intensity to .2. The second directional light was for the ceiling so I rotated that towords the ceiling and had set the intensity to .1. Also both of these lights color where the same yellowish tint. So then afterwards of setting all these lights to this yellowish tint, my room became this one big ugly yellow room. So I then realized that my floor has some blue in it (Sheww thank god there was a differnt color ) So I created 2 more point lights and set those to a blueish color. The last thing I did was I set the first 12 point lights in to sast depth map shadows but ALSO, I redirected the shadows to go the direction I wanted them to go in.


However this is where I stand and I don't know why my shadows look like they are bouncing in a upwards direction. I made sure that all of my lights shadows where pointing in the -y direction but it still doesn't look correct. Could anyone explain this to me and how I can fix this?

Anywho here is my pics and I am asking for your help...
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Old 13-03-2005, 06:52 AM   #6
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not sure what you mean about the shadows bouncing up as the shadows are cast to sides and to the bottom of the cabinets, which would be correct. the light seems to falloff too much as it isn't reaching some of the counter top. maybe a ambiant light would work for a fill light in this scene? definitely getting there.
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Old 13-03-2005, 02:33 PM   #7
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I have made some adjustments in photoshop and circled the areas of the shadows areas that I was talking about who appear there casting there shadows in the wrong direction.

Also I am going to be a busy person today so it doesn't look like I will be touching Maya until late tonight. Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 13-03-2005, 04:38 PM   #8
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can you post a wireframe of the scene? curious about the light configuration.
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Old 13-03-2005, 10:42 PM   #9
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sure no problem.
Though I wasn't sure which angle you like so I did a camera view with just the walls and lights, and a top view with everything
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Old 16-03-2005, 03:11 PM   #10
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Hello anybody out there?
I have been waiting patiently, for the past few days now and haven't herd from anybody. And what is the problem that only mhcannon was chipping in? I am still waiting for a reply from my questions in the begining of this thread. Like I said I have purchased some points through simplymaya.com and I am looking for some tutorials in lighting indoor scenes. Purchasing these points was really hard for me considering that I have become disabled as of last fall and I am not working anymore.

Also awile back I had found a thread of amazinglex posting his/her indoor scene project and I asked if he/she still have the file and if so could I have a copy. Amazinglex had replied back and told me that he/she had the file. A few days later he/she said that he/she was having problems with it but said that he/she was working on it and would send it to me asap. After that it has been now 2 weeks and I haven't still heard from him/her. I thought that this was truely rude to say that you wouldn't mind giving someone your file but then never getting back to that person. I also think that it is truely rude of you all who are reading this and just passing by. I could understand why probably mhcannan just stop posting because no one else is helping out. At least thats how I would feel if I was the only one helping someone out. I don't think this is fair for someone who really needs help and what ever happened to when you purchase points you get faster and better support. In my opinion I don't see any improvement and infact I was getting better answers when I didn't have any points. And I don't want to here "be patient you only have ... numbers of readings", or "Well you do have nine posts aready what expect?", when truely most of these readings and posts have been from me and I am still not getting the any answers. In addition, I also don't want to here "well maybe if you chip in yourself to others..." when I have, and also I haven't seen to too many new posts on a modeling question or something on uv wrapping where this is my area of strength.

Also like I said before, please don't take this thread that it is a WIP post when in reality in the begining of this thread I have been tring to ask for any videos on lighting tuts and I still am. And if you don't know of any good video tuts in here, then do you have any other suggetions?
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Old 16-03-2005, 04:38 PM   #11
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Please e-mail or AIM message me on this...
Thanks.
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Old 16-03-2005, 04:49 PM   #12
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in the meantime here are some sites with lighting tutorials that may help...

http://www.learning-maya.com/rendering.php
http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Maya/Lighting/1
http://www.******online.com/tutorial.php?category_id=4
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Old 16-03-2005, 05:21 PM   #13
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ok your shadows are "bouncing upwards" because you are using pointlights and tyhey cast shadows in 6 directions. Use spots with a wide cone angle to avoid that. Also point lights take ages to render because of the number of shadows and the amount of light they cast. Your lighting looks like it is a good start however it looks very flat and lifeless (simply because you have too much light in there with all the point lights). I think you are on the right tracks and there is no "this is how you light a room" tutorial as each one is different. The thing to remember is that CG light doesn't bounce and so you need to add your bounce and fill lights carefully. More isn't necessarily better in terms of lights either, the effect you have at the moment could be achieved with half of the lights you have

as for no one replying to your thread apart from one person, many people here in the newbie forum feel a bit initimidated by lighting and there aren't that many people with a lot of experience in it. If you have a lighting question post it in the lighting forum (for which I am the mod) and I will do my best to reply and help you.

good work though, it's nice to see someone taking a real interest in the lighting side of things and not just throwing final gather and and saying it's lit

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Old 16-03-2005, 07:37 PM   #14
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Thanks to the both of you.
Originally posted by Pure_Morning
...however it looks very flat and lifeless (simply because you have too much light in there with all the point lights). I think you are on the right tracks and there is no "this is how you light a room" tutorial as each one is different. The thing to remember is that CG light doesn't bounce and so you need to add your bounce and fill lights carefully. More isn't necessarily better in terms of lights either, the effect you have at the moment could be achieved with half of the lights you have
I guess my point is I am having troubles understanding how bounce light works in the respect of how many lights and what type of lights should be used for bounce light, as well as how dark should the room look so that it doesn't look so flat.

Originally posted by Pure_Morning

as for no one replying to your thread apart from one person, many people here in the newbie forum feel a bit initimidated by lighting and there aren't that many people with a lot of experience in it. If you have a lighting question post it in the lighting forum (for which I am the mod) and I will do my best to reply and help you.
Oh thank you so much in explaing this to me. Please accept my appology of sounding so dense, though I truely was thinking that this forum was for newbies to post there questions and other expeirenced people who where in such and such situation have ideas to help others. I didn't know that other newbies are repling. So I will certianly do so.

Originally posted by Pure_Morning
good work though, it's nice to see someone taking a real interest in the lighting side of things and not just throwing final gather and and saying it's lit
... and thanks for the support and keeping my confidence on a high. My attitude on taking interest on something has always been if I am currious on how somthing works, I keep on saying to myself... "I am going to solve this even if I have to beat it into my head until it is solved".

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