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Old 20-04-2006, 04:42 AM   #31
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The Information you should me is out dated and wrong. Here are a couple of sites to go thru.
http://www.radiocarbon.org/Journal/v37n1/vartanyan.html

http://www.c14dating.com/int.html

And any thing from Kent Hovind is a complete joke. That guy believes that Dinosaurs and man lived peacefully together after they got off Noahís arc. Please donít tell me you believe him or any thing you say after will fall short of intelligent conversation.

Iím still waiting for a response form Dr. Pigliucci on carbon dating in strata that came from space. As soon as I get it Ill put it up.

if you want to visit the site heres the site.
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...imo_pigliucci/
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Old 20-04-2006, 10:42 PM   #32
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If any one likes debates hereís a link of one, Todd Friel and Dan Barker. Itís one of the most popular debates on the existence of god. Both guys put up a good argument and itís very entertaining. Itís a free podcast so you can download it or just open it up.

http://www.wotmradio.com/2006/04/04/...barker-debate/
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Old 21-04-2006, 09:43 AM   #33
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Originally posted by R-Tillery
And any thing from Kent Hovind is a complete joke. That guy believes that Dinosaurs and man lived peacefully together after they got off Noahís arc. Please donít tell me you believe him or any thing you say after will fall short of intelligent conversation.
I believe the Bible and Kent Hovind argument is based on the Bible so alot of stuff he says goes along side my beliefs? And how is he a joke? His arguments are well formed and in debates I've seen its not him but the the other scientists that appear the "jokes".
Thanks for the links to "On the existance of God". Im always interested in debates like these.
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Old 21-04-2006, 10:46 AM   #34
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Originally posted by MattTheMan
Therefore there will allways be disagreement- unless there is an ultimate lawgiver- God.
So what you're saying is that God exists since there's no disagreement in the world?

Originally posted by MattTheMan
Ok, there is no God. Explain me this- can you rise from the dead? I HIGHLY doubt it. But, if you insist you can, can I go and beat the crap out of you, then nail you to a cross and sticking a spear between your ribs?
I remember hearing that there were proof that Jesus actually lived and walked the Earth, but not that he actually rose from the dead... If you've got some, other than what it says in the Bible, you're more than welcome to share...

Originally posted by MattTheMan
The only way that could happen is if we all were perfect. unfortunatly, we are not all "good" on the inside. We all have sinful natures. Some people are really close to being perfect (like mother Teresa), but the only way they manage to do that is by obeying God's commandments.
I think you meant to say "Some people are really close to being perfect christians" since you're referring to being perfect according to christian values and beliefs...

Just my $0.02

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Old 21-04-2006, 11:05 AM   #35
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Originally posted by blomkaal
So what you're saying is that God exists since there's no disagreement in the world?
Dude, theres always disagreement in the world, look at wars, crimanal laws, politics etc .
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Old 21-04-2006, 11:20 AM   #36
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Here's my two cents:

Why I Am Not A Christian . . .

Bertrand Russell once wrote a book "Why I Am Not A Christian" which I felt was quite lacking in substance, considering the title . . . . I thought it would be interesting to write about it . . . .

Before I get into this issue, I must warn you that if you are a christian and are easily offended, do not read this. If you disregard this warning and continue, don't blame me for this, I have warned you . . .

Many people, including those who profess Christianity and many other religions, believe that theirs is an omnipotent God, who created the universe, who is "love". To them I would simply ask this question......... If you could create a universe, and you were indeed the embodiment of love, would you create one in which beings of that world would prey upon other beings.......a world where it is necessary for beings to consume other life in order to live? I think not.

Now, suppose that you go to your doctor because you are sick, and after the usual check-in, you are brought to the examination room. When your doctor comes in, there may be the short bit of small-talk, then he asks you what it is that is wrong. So you tell him, and then, to your complete astonishment, he says "Unless you acknowledge to me, that I am a doctor, and address me as Dr. _____, I will not treat you." I think that the average person, with any common sense, would not wait around to be treated by that so-called doctor! This anology can be applied to Jesus. Why does he insist that others acknowledge his title? Would someone with a normal bearing in life, having a title, (as would a true doctor) feel a need to have their title acknowledged?

When there is a great social stigma attached to a particular thing, it is not uncommon for people to do everything they can to hide this stigma from society. The psychological term, I believe that would be applied, is called repression. One represses what would other-wise cause them pain by acknowledging it to themselves or to others. It is said that Jesus was oft-times considered to be an illegitimate child. What better way to attempt to convince others that you were indeed of legitimate birth, lacking any other proof, than to claim to have decended from god himself! So much for immaculate conception.

The idea of "original sin" is preposterous, from a humanistic perspective, and from a realistic perspective. It is simply a dinosaur that was carried from the past, when the disgrace of an individual was considered the disgrace of every generation afterward. The average person does not hold things against children who error due to ignorance or the errors of their ancestors...........they may punish them as a way to keep them from dangers......but they do not hold this against them for the rest of their lives or for eternity, for that matter. One does not learn, without making errors. But I think that there are plenty of people who prefer to keep others in a non-enlightened state.

I think that the dissemination of lies is motivated by greed. If you can convince a bunch of people to believe, you can also convince them to give, once you do that, you have become the parasite who harvests from these poor deceived souls.

Some people are just lazy..............they don't want to even take the time to actively try to be of any benefit to humanity, so they give their money to the priest, whom they assume (a lot of times falsely) will do good for them, or at the very least, absolve them............. These priests are suppose to be wise men and are suppose to give guidance to the general public . . but most of them are also suppose to live a life of semi-seclusion and remain a virgin all their lives. If I want to learn how to fire a cannon, I'll go to someone who has done it, thank you.

I cannot see any sense in attaching oneself to a doctrine. When you become so rigid in defending these doctrines, as do many people, you then lock out all other possibilities.........and many of the doctrines that exist are inflexible and assumming.....they are assumming because they tend to make a lot of claims which cannot be proven. Once most people write all their doctine in stone, and then cling to it like it is their last thing on earth, they become rigid, unbending, and uncompromising. They close the door to exploration.

I think that any idea of eternal damnation runs against what love is suppose to be........Who could imagine a parent so pernicious as to condemn their children to suffer eternally? Yet, when this idea is supported by biblical text, it seems to be ok to people....... Love is not something that is conditional, based upon someones behavior, in my opinion. If you really do indeed love someone, conditions are irrelevant. As Nietzsche would say, "Whatever is done from love occurs beyond good and evil".

Some people just assume automatically that an athiest has no moral compass . . . but are the above statements impling lack of moral compass, or a penchant for the truth, regardless of the palatibility of it?

The Antichrist, one of Nietzsche's best works, is still very relevant today . . .
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Old 21-04-2006, 01:50 PM   #37
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Originally posted by blomkaal
I remember hearing that there were proof that Jesus actually lived and walked the Earth, but not that he actually rose from the dead... If you've got some, other than what it says in the Bible, you're more than welcome to share...
I don't know what u would consider as proof but their is the shourd. It kinda looks like a negative from a camera but on a piece of cloth. Maybe a suden surge of energy or light could have done it. http://www.shroud.com/.
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Old 21-04-2006, 01:51 PM   #38
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Wasn't the Turin Shroud carbon dated to be the middle ages rarther than at the time of Christ?
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Old 21-04-2006, 02:15 PM   #39
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Originally posted by skywola
Many people, including those who profess Christianity and many other religions, believe that theirs is an omnipotent God, who created the universe, who is "love". To them I would simply ask this question......... If you could create a universe, and you were indeed the embodiment of love, would you create one in which beings of that world would prey upon other beings.......a world where it is necessary for beings to consume other life in order to live? I think not.
Biblicaly speaking, God did not create a world like that. U're seeing the world as it is now and saying that God made it this way. If u saw a mashed-up Toyota Supra on the side of the road, would u then think, "why did Toyota make a supra like that?". I think not. Toyota didn't make it like that, it happened after it was made. God made the world and gave charge for man to take care of it, and man pretty much did the opposite. At the end of creation God saw what he had created and "it was good". God made a perfect world. Human kind destroyed it.
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Old 21-04-2006, 02:37 PM   #40
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Originally posted by gster123
Wasn't the Turin Shroud carbon dated to be the middle ages rarther than at the time of Christ?
Its been proven in 2005 that the piece they used to carbon date back in 1988 wasn't part of the real showd but a fix up of a fire that nearly destroyed the shoroud back in 1500ths.
http://www.shroud2000.com/CarbonDatingNews.html
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Old 21-04-2006, 02:47 PM   #41
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Well there you go.

I remember seeing an experiment where someone was trying to re-create the shroud, they did it by paintig the cloth in a silver compound and placing it in a darkened room with a small amount of light with the light source behind the cloth and the subject in front, left it for days/

It worked with an almost exact replication, so they thought it was a first atttempt at photography rarther than a shroud that someone would have been wraped in at burial.
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Old 21-04-2006, 03:26 PM   #42
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Originally posted by gster123
Dude, theres always disagreement in the world, look at wars, crimanal laws, politics etc .
Check out my quote, that was kinda my point

Originally posted by Tiago2
Biblicaly speaking, God did not create a world like that. U're seeing the world as it is now and saying that God made it this way. If u saw a mashed-up Toyota Supra on the side of the road, would u then think, "why did Toyota make a supra like that?". I think not. Toyota didn't make it like that, it happened after it was made. God made the world and gave charge for man to take care of it, and man pretty much did the opposite. At the end of creation God saw what he had created and "it was good". God made a perfect world. Human kind destroyed it.
Humans may have destroyed the Earth, but God (if he exists) still created a world where some creatures, not just humans, prey upon weaker ones...
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Old 21-04-2006, 07:50 PM   #43
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Originally posted by skywola
Now, suppose that you go to your doctor because you are sick, and after the usual check-in, you are brought to the examination room. When your doctor comes in, there may be the short bit of small-talk, then he asks you what it is that is wrong. So you tell him, and then, to your complete astonishment, he says "Unless you acknowledge to me, that I am a doctor, and address me as Dr. _____, I will not treat you." I think that the average person, with any common sense, would not wait around to be treated by that so-called doctor! This anology can be applied to Jesus. Why does he insist that others acknowledge his title? Would someone with a normal bearing in life, having a title, (as would a true doctor) feel a need to have their title acknowledged?
I tend to think that god is irrelevant. For me, I don't really care whether god exists or not. I see a lot of people thanking god for their good fortune as if starving babies don't believe in god and so that's why s/he/it punishes them. I'm not interested in something that needs me to believe in it so I can get into it's special little club. I think skywola does a good job of explaining this problem.

I don't see what good or evil, right or wrong has to do with god. In fact I don't believe that these ideas even exist - I think that these are just ideas that we have created.

Also, Umberto Eco writes an interesting essay in his book Five Moral Pieces on what it means to be moral or ethical when one doesn't believe in god. Definitely worth checking out.
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Old 21-04-2006, 08:24 PM   #44
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Originally posted by Tiago2
I believe the Bible and Kent Hovind argument is based on the Bible so alot of stuff he says goes along side my beliefs? And how is he a joke? His arguments are well formed and in debates I've seen its not him but the the other scientists that appear the "jokes".
Thanks for the links to "On the existance of God". Im always interested in debates like these.

First let me apologize for the (intelligent conversation) remark, it wasnít intended at you but for Hovinds theories. Itís funny how people can hear one story about some oneís theories and come out thinking that persons right or wrong. The Debates I have seen and heard about his ideas came out holier the Swiss cheese. I have the debates on pod casts but canít kickíem to you because of the pay site I got them from. If you want hours of these kinds of debates you can go here to
http://www.infidelguy.com/index.php but there are some free ones here as well.
http://www.freethoughtmedia.com/infidelguy.ftm
You can join the site, its free but have to pay for the podcast on a monthly bases, and itís real cheep like $8 a month. I never mock any ones beliefís about God because thatís what they (well?) believe. I donít have the right to say you cant or can; itís just what you were taught and what you have faith in.


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Old 22-04-2006, 10:08 AM   #45
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Originally posted by R-Tillery
itís just what you were taught and what you have faith in.
Its not just that, there is Bible prophesy aswell that comes true. If there were no God how were these predictions made. Surely an extra chemical in ur brain couldn't tell u the future. Thousands of years b4 prophets of old wrote about stuff happening nowadays, and also inventions not yet made in their time, eg. cars. What about the 'mark of the beast', Biblical turm. Is that true. 'Less they recieve a mark in their forehead or in their right hand they will not be able to buy or sell' -Bible. Well today that is possible and even already catching on in some parts of america. Its not yet used for buying and selling but rather for entrance in clubs. The technoknolodgy is certanly there already (http://www.verichipcorp.com/).' The Bible fortolled this would happen and it is already starting to happen.

A great place for Bible endtime prophesy , http://www.thefamily.org/endtime/ also "The future foretold" online and paperback booklet http://www.thefamily.org/endtime/fut...dex.php3?cid=0
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