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Old 04-06-2008, 09:51 AM   #1
GioChrono
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Default Professor Cain - The Talos Project

Hey dudes, here is a modified shot from my webcomic The Talos Project featuring one of its characters Professor Edward Francis Cain.



Cheers

Gio

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Old 04-06-2008, 10:06 AM   #2
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this is a really nice shot.
congrats.
looks like the lips may need a little more volume? or is it me.
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:47 AM   #3
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I was reading it, its amazing so far!

anyway, vlad, i know somebody with lips like that, so I think its fine..

Of course its Geochrono's choice, though, haha

-Andy
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Old 04-06-2008, 08:43 PM   #4
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Hey thanks guys,

As for the lips, I was just gonna say that the reference for the character is my step father, and he has lips like that so there you go.

Cheers

Gio
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:12 PM   #5
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Looks great Gio ...

kind of reminds me of the guy from hitman with a red tie like that

Just wondering, is that just a facial model or has he got a body aswell ...
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:21 PM   #6
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Thanks marlonjohn.

You obviously haven't checked out The Talos Project which is what this shot is taken from. He has a fully rigged body and an office in an 18-story building with a bunch of characters and a load of underground levels too.

Cheers

Gio
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:24 AM   #7
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tho, ive never seen lips perfectly flushed like this,its your call. it doesnt mean it looks good [in 3d].
also, im sure you toook some artistic freedom from your ref, i know you didnt model this to an exact likeness, so why would the lips need to look exactly the ref? is everything else exactly like the ref?so if people say some portions of the character look a bit "iffy", its not because theyre trying to be asses, its just areas that may need some improvement. its called constructive criticism, not just "its awsome" replies. i hope this is making some sense, and not being misintepreted...

my $.02
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:14 AM   #8
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Go on Vlad have him for lunch!! LOL

All good points...

cheers
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Old 05-06-2008, 08:33 AM   #9
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My point would be that everyone is different, and that is how he looks and so that is part of his character that makes him different so I don't see a prob with it.
I don't stare at my step-father thinking his lips are wrong all the time. It's just the way he looks.

If 'people' did have enough of a problem with it perhaps I would consider making adjustments in future shots but it's not a one off image, it's one of many hundreds and I can't spend that much time on each one or the whole thing would never be finished, but so far you are the only person to have an issue with them.

So I don't think it to be sufficient a problem to go back and re-do finished pages based on one person's opinion alone.

No disrespect to your opinion, as you are entitled to one and I can see your point. It's just not a big enough deal to make changes as it's not created with the intend to be analyzed for imperfections, it's part of a story, and it's the final product as a whole which matters in the end.

Cheers

Gio
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:18 PM   #10
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I can feel the heat from here:bandit:


Of course this is all right from both parties.

And of course I will just add my ten pennys worth here. What we see here is not an animation where a multitude of sins can actually be hidden in the motion - blurred if you will, as animation demands movement and weighting to name a few to emote a response say on a more emotional level whereas a single 3d image or images will get scrutinised beyond this point purely through the fact its in your face. Things will stand out more or are open to scrutiny. I look at my stuff each day and know exactly alot of the pin points people will look at., and therefore try to eradicate probs before they are pointed out. But its just never going to go away...we as humans know ourselves so well

Of course we all have our opinions at the end of the day, but the one thing I find is overlooked is that we are all different in every respect...but 3d being what it is we are all striving for a perfect model everytime, symmetry for example its a common one in human models, but find me a human thats symetrical, theres no such thing. We can all tend to spend too much time on one thing, but on this level you have to keep rolling and learn as you go, I myself dont want to be driven nuts by small issues on a character, a compromise has to reached before cutting it loose in a lot of cases.

But, what should be realised is the the multitude of work that it takes to create this type of work and Im talking about 3d comics/graphic novels, it is huge!! Ya know how long a CG movie takes with a team of 100+, this is being done in spare time if you will by one person alone...the task is immense. He's not creating a 5minute short in 6months, this is going go on far longer.

Having worked with GioChrono on two large 3d comics for two different companies we know how it is on the front line. And I'd like to point out that on a couple of occasions we've had people work with us who have worked at places like Pixar, Framestore even Alias teachers who have been absolutely staggered and had their jaws drop at what was being attempted. So ya know

there are alot of frustations in doing this type of work even 3d in general to produce a single image can give the brain a bit of stress. But just to point out something to Gio, remember my friend that we arent dealing with total comic book geeks on these forums, a few of these guys are doing production or studying 'whatever' so they wont be blinded by the pretty pictures we create, they will go for the jugular LOL.

We just have to take the rough with the smooth and if the crit is justified, great, take it onboard for future use and move on to the next piece, if its a load of arse just laugh and ignore it.

It aint gonna happen- but Im still trying to get it pixel perfect too

cheers
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:33 PM   #11
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Originally posted by Jay
I can feel the heat from here:bandit:


Of course this is all right from both parties.

And of course I will just add my ten pennys worth here. What we see here is not an animation where a multitude of sins can actually be hidden in the motion - blurred if you will, as animation demands movement and weighting to name a few to emote a response say on a more emotional level whereas a single 3d image or images will get scrutinised beyond this point purely through the fact its in your face. Things will stand out more or are open to scrutiny. I look at my stuff each day and know exactly alot of the pin points people will look at., and therefore try to eradicate probs before they are pointed out. But its just never going to go away...we as humans know ourselves so well

...
Of course we all have our opinions at the end of the day, but the one thing I find is overlooked is that we are all different in every respect...but 3d being what it is we are all striving for a perfect model everytime
...

Having worked with GioChrono on two large 3d comics for two different companies we know how it is on the front line. And I'd like to point out that on a couple of occasions we've had people work with us who have worked at places like Pixar, Framestore even Alias teachers who have been absolutely staggered and had their jaws drop at what was being attempted. So ya know
...
But just to point out something to Gio, remember my friend that we arent dealing with total comic book geeks on these forums, a few of these guys are doing production or studying 'whatever' so they wont be blinded by the pretty pictures we create, they will go for the jugular LOL.

We just have to take the rough with the smooth and if the crit is justified, great, take it onboard for future use and move on to the next piece, if its a load of arse just laugh and ignore it.

It aint gonna happen- but Im still trying to get it pixel perfect too

cheers
Jay
quoted for agreement. thats the entire truth Jay. you nailed it with the still image part.
i showed this thread to a mate last nite too, and an important thing he said to me was "art isnt reference".
although he does more editing and camera work, less vfx, i realize immediately where he was getting at. and it fits well with what jay said about perfection and having a perfect model each time.
no one is doubting the fact that gio's work is great, however, even the imperfections on a model are always perfectly modeled. in other words, a flat lip that is purposely modeled imperfectly, to show a scar or to show a key feature in a character, will not stand out as much as lips modeled imperfectly or poorly...
the lips are what jumps out immediatrly when i look at this image. and its not because its a striking feature on the character, but rather because it looks 'funky' and it takes away a lot fromt an otherwise great composition.
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:06 PM   #12
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All these comments are absolutely valid.

To point one thing out. I had done this shot initially for the comic. In the comic he has his mouth open as he is talking. I wanted to use the shot elsewhere and so I shut his mouth and re rendered. That's it. It's not a shot I have spent much time on as it's a waste of time for me to do so.
So, if there are problems with it, cool, shit happens, but it has been out there merely to raise awareness of the comic. And the fact that people are on here having a debate means that it has worked.

What I thought when looking at it it that he need a little spec on the lips to bring them out and show the contour better, but I'm not gonna spend anymore time on a shot that isn't in the comic so I chose to let it go.

I don't presume it to be perfect, and to be honest I accepted that very few shots would be perfect seeing as I will have to make tens of characters and environments and hundreds of shots in my spare time, and so I can't be too precious about it.
that's a balance I have to accept to make The Talos Project happen at all.

That's not to say I don't value peoples opinions, good or bad. I welcome them in case it's something I have missed, but if it's something I have seen and have made a decision on there is no need to think I believe you to be an 'arse' and take it personally.

Cheers

Gio
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:11 PM   #13
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Absolutely, spot on once again from all sides.

Life is hell creating 3d!! but we luv it!!

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Old 05-06-2008, 11:40 PM   #14
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I almost went blind on Talos launch day.

recovering now.

(three blind c****, three blind c****, see how they work....)

G
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:12 AM   #15
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LOL yeah I remember that LOL

sounds like you had a 'Jase'....

just rest for a day, no computer work, take two hot women and see me in the morning

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