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Old 11-03-2010, 11:11 PM   #1
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Default Zbrush Face Study

Hey guys, long time no see, eh?

Well, i'm back in England (Derby) and have FINALLY got things set up again.

Anyway, I spent the last couple of days sculpting a couple of faces, and would like some feedback on them, just to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. I've noticed a few issues since sculpting them, but any extra input would be great!

Here's the first head. Main problem I note at the moment is the nose. Will work on fixing that.





Here's the second face:





Bit of fun here... added a tash... seems to change the character completely.



Anyway, that's all the faces at the moment, I'm going to be doing more, but I thought I would throw up a thread and get some feedback.

C&C appreciated.

-Steve
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:15 PM   #2
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Also been working on some composting in ZB and PS.

Weird Creature:



I was going to throw him in the old character modeling thread, but i figured I'd put him in here with the newer stuff.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:38 PM   #3
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Hi Mayaniac
I think these are realy good. may be the eye braws and tash could be done better but other than that I like them, are you using refferances for these, the last one took me of guard as it is totaly differant but I like that also. Then you say you are using zbrush and photoshop do you meen you are using photoshop inside zbrush............looking good dave
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:22 AM   #4
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They seem to share a common lower jaw and lip but they are all really good mayaniac.
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:27 AM   #5
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Looks really good mate!

Liking the sculpts, are they free form?

The PS work and Z's looking good, not too sure about the hard surfaces in there, well I am, sort of, I really like it but I dunno how it fits! Strange comment I know!

Hows Darby? If you manage to get over to Manchester at some point give me a shout.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:14 AM   #6
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@daverave. Thanks. Yeah, I'm basically just taking renders within Zbrush of different layers of the creature i.e: Dermal, sub-dermal, specular, etc. Then composting them in photoshop. Some of the layers are poly-painted for a better effect, but I'm still just learning poly-painting, so this one was just a test. As for the last guys hair... yeah, it was all just thrown on there. He's actually the same person (model) as the one above him, but I threw a quick tash on him, and gave him some better eyes.... completely changed the model. And yeah, I'm using reference, mainly just pictures of people's faces. But I mainly borrow features from multiple faces.... take the bits that I like from each.

@ctbram. Yeah, they're all sculpted of the same base mesh (except the creature). I guess some of that is seeping through the characters..... guess I could just sat they're related

BASE MESH:



@gster123. Thanks, the face sculpts are done on a base mesh (above) and are based on reference images. The creature was free-formed from Z-spheres. And yeah, the creature is strange... as for the hard surfaces, it's meant to be more like a beak than a mouth.... or some kind of mix of both. I'm not really sure.

Derby's great, thanks for asking... just getting my bearings back at moment, and yeah, will give you a shout if I find myself heading to Manchester.

Thanks for the comments!
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:49 PM   #7
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Would like to see the original Z sphere tool that you made the face from.

I'm starting to really get into Z spheres at the moment for creating basemeshes, then jumping to Maya via the ma file export, refine then back to Z, then again I thin that I may be doing one step too much, might as well just use Z for it all!

Come on Steve, get more pics up!
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:23 PM   #8
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@Steve... Exactly! I barely go near Maya anymore for Organics. You can do everything in ZB at twice the speed, and twice the results (imo). The only time you need to go to Maya is for rigging and animation, Zbrush even has it's own UV mapping tool now! You can create all your blend shapes twice as fast, stack them up as subtools, then when you're done, just zap them across to Maya for animating/rendering... it's brilliant!

Anyway.... Here's some picks of the critter.

Started out as a basic 7 Zsphere shape.


Of course, I could Retopo it if I wanted. As I did with this old critter:



And here's a few more shots of the head models:









I have a base Human model that i use for nearly everything. I have him poly-grouped, so if I just want a head, I can grab it... if i just want a limb, etc, etc. Comes in really handy. But if something is too inhuman, then I just throw some ZSpheres together.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:50 PM   #9
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You know, I feel really silly now.

I was expecting the Z sphere model to be really complex, god knows why!

Haha

I remember when I first looked at Z spheres in version 2 and thought they were great, but went down the maya route for base mesh creation as I felt like I was cheating.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:18 PM   #10
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I still think its better to create your base mesh in maya, lightwave and so as you have more control.........dave

Edit: may be I jumped the gun but I would need to see the work flow for animation and blenshape

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Old 12-03-2010, 04:59 PM   #11
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Originally posted by daverave
I still think its better to create your base mesh in maya, lightwave and so as you have more control.........dave
If your starting off then yes, but with some experience the workflow almost full Z brush with a retopo mid situ to give arguably more control (as the base mesh can move with the sculpt)

In personal terms I probably would just use Zbrush to sculpt then retop then carry on, faster and more free and allows extra detail to be added in the retop section with more detail in those areas.

End of the day its up to the user, going the full Z route is daunting but free!
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:45 PM   #12
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Originally posted by daverave
I still think its better to create your base mesh in maya, lightwave and so as you have more control.........dave
You don't really get that much more control. When your modeling in Maya, LW, Max, etc. From step one your mostly in a technical mind set. You have to lay down your basic forms, and a lot the time you're spent making sure all of your edges flow right, and that your proportions are spot on. And these sorts of edits take time. And I've found that even if I have a base mesh fully modeled in Maya, when I get it into ZB, I always end up changing it... pushing and pulling the forms, and generally cleaning up the shapes. Just because it's so easy... it lets your artistic side take over.

I still model in Maya, and there are advantages to creating your base meshes there, such as having your edge-loops in place from step one, having resolution where you need it, etc. Especially if you're following a concept.

Originally posted by gster123
You know, I feel really silly now.

I was expecting the Z sphere model to be really complex, god knows why!

Haha

I remember when I first looked at Z spheres in version 2 and thought they were great, but went down the maya route for base mesh creation as I felt like I was cheating.
Nah, a lot of the time there's no real need for your ZSpheres to be too complex. Especially when you're just winging it.. too much detail would just get in the way. Of course if you have a clear design you're aiming for, then yeah, ZSphere your heart out.

hehe, I used to feel it was cheating too. But then again, early on, I thought that modeling heads via the "edge extrusion" method was cheating too... as it seemed most modelers were doing it the Box modeling way. At first I couldn't get to grips with box modeling, but the edge extrusion method seemed easy to me... so, naturally, I figured I had to have been cheating. But, In the end it's what the final product looks like. It doesn't really matter how you got there.
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Last edited by Mayaniac : 12-03-2010 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #13
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I still model in Maya, and there are advantages to creating your base meshes there, such as having your edge-loops in place from step one, having resolution where you need it, etc. Especially if you're following a concept.
Thats what I mean, I dont try to get the model any thing like finished I just get the extra polygons where I need them with a idear for a finished model. Where are you creating your UVs and where do you edit them. Could you give us a walk through of your work flow say for a model to be animated and texture............sorry lots of questions......dave
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #14
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Thing is Dave, your model may change and then you need more detail on the base, doing the retopo in Z, without having to make a base mesh is a lot more free form and saves a step.

As for UV's I would not even bother unitll the Z sculpt is finished, then do the UV's as they can change if you UV a base mesh then sculpt, again saves a step, and I would prabably do the UV's in Z now with its plug in! Awesome!

Its horses for courses to be fair.
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:22 PM   #15
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Originally posted by gster123

As for UV's I would not even bother unitll the Z sculpt is finished, then do the UV's as they can change if you UV a base mesh then sculpt, again saves a step, and I would prabably do the UV's in Z now with its plug in! Awesome!

Its horses for courses to be fair.
Agreed. A lot of the time you will go through a couple of meshes before you arrive at your final. It's not worth UV mapping your 500 poly Maya base mesh. I would UV map it right before i wanted to start backing off normal maps. Once the model was completed.

And yeah, ZB's new UVing tool id great!

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=082643
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