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Old 10-09-2003, 03:51 PM   #1
dragonfx
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Default need info...

hi everybody i returned with a huge hangover from post exams partys...
Plus my tft just died this morning... there must be something wrong with the lamps(or the power for em) wich lightenthe screen. It lost almost 3/4 of its luminosity/contrast... so hoorray!...(at least it has a 3 years warranty on site...)
(i forgot how my old crt were... 75Mhz refresh hurts after just half an hour...)

Last edited by dragonfx : 10-09-2003 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 10-09-2003, 04:07 PM   #2
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uh yeah the info i was asking on the thread name...
well, due to the finantial aids, subventions and the new regulation for registering new enterprises, and other stuff... im starting to consider making business plan for making a small videogame studio... from the finantial point of view this is a good moment for making a (really small) startup (even if the internet bubble exploded) (making some combos I could manage to have 50000€ on capital with just 5000€ + a good business plan=>viavility study approved... without finding any previous investor... (and whats coolest is that on step 3 you recover the 5000€ con is that there are no second chances... you have to have a good product at frist try...), yes i know 50000€ is peanuts when tryng to do something like a games studio, specially if woure going to embark on a long development cycle product... but it could be enough for the product i have in mind... (plus once the thing starts moving i could find investors)

The main problems i dont have clear enough to complete a bussiness plan for it are:

1 Distributors: how they work, is there one of them that would consider unasked product displays? or they usually only want to consider stuff they encommended to a determinated company?, if option1: what stage of finalization the product has to be in to be considerable for them investing on it?. Also they usually like to pay on a percent of sellings or buy all the rights along with the product?, marketing campaings is usally financied/acomplished by them? (if that point is no i can forget going any further...) or does the own studio has to make its own campaign? )

2 Engine/direct X, is there a comunity like simplymaya for the DirectX SDK?, so i can take a look of the problems (+times, prices etc) of developing a (very unambitious) engine (anyways im going to see if i can speack to some people from the informatics faculty, and see what they learn on videogame programming optative class ) (maybe ill refresh my c++ programing and take it this year, the business admin optative classes are a bit ludicrous, essentially you need 25 extra credits,and you can either pick some speciallizations or choose almost every assignature from almost any other career to fill em, like "videogame programing" as well as "quantum phisics" or something equally arcane if you choose to... )

3 Freelancer art, if i manage to make things clear on my minfd about points 1 and 2 i willl try to have the least staff perrsonel as possible and outsource grat parts of art or hire freelancers... what is reasonable to ask?(this more or less i know) and what is reasonable to offer for it? (this im more clueless on, specially if i were to talk some artists outside spain). Also what is the best way to organice feelancing? (how do the companys do it?)


I have some very rough ideas formed on those points, but any links or direct responses or any info whatsoever related to them will be very appreciated. (even if i conclude its undoable it never hurts to know, plus im sure theres lots of ppl on this site that will be interested too so if you can speak of it and are free to do so, please...)

(business plan is the frist step to business viability studys, then... just do it)

Last edited by dragonfx : 10-09-2003 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 11-09-2003, 10:13 AM   #3
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noone? not a miserable link? or indications about costs of hiring freelancers outside spain?... huuuum
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Old 11-09-2003, 11:06 AM   #4
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Hello!

First of all, it´s haaard ...

no, i am working with and for a game company about 2 years now allready.

we started as gang of newbs trying to build a TrainSimulator. As we were VERY lucky, we were the first bringing out a Microsoft TrainSimulator Addon ind germany. the quality was poor, but people bought it, and it was a succes ... the addons number 2 and 3 and 4 (what i am currently working on) became quite good, as well in qualitiy as in succes

now, my experiances:
- don´t think it is easy
- you need a lot of luck and find the right people

now on your questions:
distributors: normally they buy the whole package and sell it, they will do everything like producing the physical things like CDs and so on. They will organice, that your product will once be in a shop.
But they will take quite a bit of the money they make with the game, you will get (same as authors of a book) get paid e.g. 5 € per sold game.

now, from that money you have to pay your freelance artists, your licences.
freelance artist i would hire either by telling them: you will get paid 10 Cent per sold game (you might need a few freelancers...)
or you pay them directly per object they build, common prices for low-poly-low-over-all-quality objects is about 10-15 €.

2. engines - sorry, don´t know anything about that ... but i would suggest to start with addons ... allways a secure way ... and a lot of game-engines are good enough.

well, i hope i can help you ...

ah another thing: i do this just for fun, cause i still am a student ... so no risk ... but i wouldn´t do it as the only job ... better way is to get into a game-company, learn, and leave as you did all your beginners-mistakes and take away enough experiance ... any other way would be to risky for me ...


BUT: if you start a business, tell me ... maybe, we do something together ?
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Old 11-09-2003, 11:41 AM   #5
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Originally posted by train_ucl
BUT: if you start a business, tell me ... maybe, we do something together ?
du trottel
hehehehhehehehehe
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Old 11-09-2003, 12:44 PM   #6
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wieso? ist dragon so schlimm ?
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Old 11-09-2003, 02:00 PM   #7
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so trottel=nincompoop=it seems it cant be translated to spanish...
wish people had the decency of insulting in an tonge i could comprenhend...

1 Never said it were gona be easy, in fact never said it were gonna be... just that it *could* be if i got things clear enough...

2 Luck is a factor if you dont have enugh knowledge, so... yes ill need a fair amount of it...

3 People: lol right now i have a loong list of people id like to hire... (maybe also something could be incorporated by making challenges here?)

But frist things frist, i dont wanna make like the story of the milkmaid. This post is full of "if"s and i have a lot to know (/speak to pople that does) on directX sdk and distributors before making a plan that could stand a project viability test... (which is step 1) so as always any info...
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Old 11-09-2003, 03:01 PM   #8
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Some of major issues publishers have:

1) A new team (no previous experience)
2) A niche game (no broad appeal)
3) Localized team (they want the team in one place, not world-spread)

etc.

Finding people to jump on the bandwagon isn't hard. Finding quality people is. Finding experienced people definitely is. Finding both, can be quite trying. Even if you do find them, KEEPING them can become an issue.

Not trying to rain on the parade, just throwing thoughts out there.
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Old 11-09-2003, 04:45 PM   #9
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Thankyou mtmck, no youre not raining nothing, in fact those are major issues i can see (what scares me is the ones i cant).

- on point two i think ill have no problem
i have two short developement cycle gameprojects already planned meeting the standards of a industry template i found, that was done as part of one of my career asignatures. The ideas were specially choosed to be broad maket targeted and short development cycle projects which are ideal for the frist things of a small studio (also they can be sold low cost for kiosk selling as not that much was invested) one is an original concept, the other one requires licencing the concep as it would be an adaptation, which means the concept creators say: "do you alrready have a distributor? theyll take care of the licensing" and i have the intuition that the distributors will make the same but to the inverse... which is part of that attitude that makes it a closed community, but then project 1 has chances if correctly executed)

point one will be the biggest problem
ill have to fight for an interview to showcase the product when its done, probably ill have to hire someone to do it for me and take the negotiations to that point, also to negotiate fair accord, plus a lawyer or something... does anybody knows of a directory of agents or people that serve that role on the games industry?/ is there a wing of the intellectual property associations that offers that service?

point three will be an issue on the long term if/when i miraclosely manage to succed, and then try to make em finance the studios on advance not when developing the frist or even the second project. as for having any chance i think ill have to have an almost finished product...


the team, will be the second major problem. I know almost everyone i would offer a chance to jump in (and isnt actullay working) will not have a shade of doubt to do it. When/if i get to the point of assembling a team i will consider myself lucky just of finding quality people. Probably keeping the staff will be on great part a matter of the success of the frist project(which takes us to point one). On the frist project i have a person on mind for being one fo the concept drawers that coincides that is also a psycholog specialliced on group/work dynamics, so i also expect her to help me choose between equally skilled persons and help make the situation smoother when problems arise. Anyways i think i already mentioned that for starting ill try to get as much freelancing as possible. I´m gonna start indagations on the informatics faculty on DirectX asap, but any link to a community like SM for directx would be priceless.

(Lets put one thing clear: right now IM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE NOONE TO JOIN NOT GIVING EXPECTATIONS TO NOONE, just said that right now is relatively easy to get some quantity of money for trying to make it, im researching if it would be possible and im willing to take any advice/info. if/when i decide i have enough knowledge and ability to assemble a team with chances for success theyll know)

Last edited by dragonfx : 11-09-2003 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 11-09-2003, 05:18 PM   #10
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Its hard to start up... but can be done. The freelance thing can be good but mike brings up good points it hard to find skilled people to stay with out much pay... the one place i work for has a pretty high turn around.

Im working as a freelancer for 2 different studio's

First one dose (Pain keep) and is developing a few new games. I work for them as a modeller and conceptual artist

The second I am lead animator for a rpg.. that hopefully will be out in about a year in a half to 2 years. With them they are just starting to get investors interested on the story and what are game is going to do. The studio is in the middle of producing a demo vershion for company's like Nintendo.
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Old 13-09-2003, 11:48 AM   #11
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Update.
I still havent talked to noone knowledgeable eough of game programing... (yet i have to try better and harder) it seems they arent like us artists, that you pull a rock and we crawl from under in a horde screaming "gimme a job!, gimme a job!!!!"

Initially, artist wise, i tought of jupiter or copperhead as engines... (they claim almost full maya integration+loads of cool features) but them costing twice the money i could get to make the project per seat kinda settled me on my place again...

Sooo, doing some research, im allured by the price/performance of torque (essentially cause im afraid i wont find noone skilled enough to reinvent the wheel only with a c++ compiler + directx9sdk...)
Torque is there for only 100$/seat... (and they say it can be expanded)
Now, i have read some of the things it can do, but im more interested on the things it CANT do... any hints?

Last edited by dragonfx : 13-09-2003 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 13-09-2003, 11:57 AM   #12
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whoops now i remember that dannyngan alrready toldme about torque (it was pre exams my memory was screwed)

going back to look the threads of a month or so ago...
quote
The Torque Game Engine from Garage Games is much more accessible, since it only costs $100 per programmer seat. Artists don't need to spend anything (the exporter is free), [...] Garage Games has a great online user community, [...] The only downside is that there is no Maya exporter at the moment. It is currently in development, and I am not sure when it is supposed to be done.
endquote

More, i want to know what have to say of it anyone who had a hands on experience on it.
What does it accept as imputs? can animations be baked to a 3ds file in maya and then imported from torque?. More... Pleaseee


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Last edited by dragonfx : 13-09-2003 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 13-09-2003, 12:29 PM   #13
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for sound OpenAL sdk seems good (and its free).

mmmhhh Is anyone participatingon the unreal contest?
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