Male Head

[Eldwick]

I am on month 5 of using maya, and really want to make a realistic human head. Thanks to the challenge I was able to make a mediocore head but not what I was hoping for.

My goal, to make a realistic head and hopefully animate a short lip syc.

The heads I made during the challenge last month:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/jamesjalandoni/headwip3.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/jamesjalandoni/heads2.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6725/heads4ml2.jpg

[Eldwick]

My current progress:

Aprox 1 hour 15min:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2334/headwip1aq4.png
Aprox 2 1/2
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2412/headwip2lk1.png

[Eldwick]

I am looking for any atomical mistakes I have made. Does this look right too you?

Update 3

1894 polys
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6857/headwip3ci1.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Turbo Dan]

the skull is all wrong, the head should not drop after the forehead in the back.
look at some side view of bald dudes, the head is shaped very differently

[Eldwick]

Thanks! Could you be more specific? Here is a shot of the side:

Is this better?
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4180/sideeu0.png

[Eldwick]

Made a uv map and added a dirty skin texture. Again, I am new to this and all advise is helpful.

Anymore problems with the head?

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/255/outuvcu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/543/textureheadbd0.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3910/headwip4ki8.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8315/headwip5ap6.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Hellspawnuk]

Can you post the reference picture you used, to me the ears look really undesized. The rest is pretty good though.

[Eldwick]

I only used the ref pic for proportions and changed the head drastically once I had all the main parts on but here it is:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5548/bgvlad0201xn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Eldwick]

Something doesn't look right besides the ears, which I will fix, can someone help me out?

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7362/headwip7cc2.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6351/headwip6hu8.png

[Turbo Dan]

the pic of the before and after of the side view looks really good but looking from the front/top it is still too flat on top, ill try to find a pic of a human head front view to look from.
everyone has a different shaped head, but no one has a flat top on their head.


here is a kinda bad example, but if you look at dr evils head its very round.

http://tomlinfox.blogspirit.com/images/medium_dr_evil_1.jpg

[Turbo Dan]

here is a good side view to go by for porportions

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/academic/class/15864-s04/www/assignment2/caltechHeadCurvature.png

[Eldwick]

Wow, this is really helpful! I couldnt find a good side ref shot, this is gonna help for more than just the top of the head, thanks again.:beer:

[gohan1842]

Well you're definately making progress.

I'd suggest not even touching textures until you're finished with the model.

As others have said the proportions are obviously out of place. How about using a reference all the way, instead of just for general proportions? I say so because if you go by your mind, it just won't look right.

One of the major offsets is the eyes. They're way too far apart.

[gster123]

Its def getting better, I'm just trying my first head model, the thing that I could suggest (and its not me really its Jay's suggestion to anyone) is to get as much reference as possible, especially if you want it to look good.

Also try to have a look at other peoples wire frames to get a good understanding of creating flowing geometry as, to me, it looks a little bit "blockey"

As Gohan said keep to modeling before going on to textures as other than jumping about you will be changing the geometry that the textures sssigned to, which could possibley end up in you re-creating a texture that you spent quite a bit of time on.

Hope this helps in some way

Keep at it

[Eldwick]

Thanks for the advise! I just made the texture really quickly because I was getting bored of modeling, it only took 20 min to unwrap and texture, so I dont mind making another one. Here is an update:

Enlarged ears, eyes closer, rounder forehead:

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2097/headwip8xn9.png (http://imageshack.us)

[gohan1842]

The eyes are still too far apart. They also look somewhat small.

[Eldwick]

Really? That last post was a before-after pic... In fact I thought I put them to close. Alrighty Ill look it over again..:headbang:

[Turbo Dan]

the top of the head is looking a million times better

[Eldwick]

Alrighty, changed the head alot. Eyes closer together and reshaped the head

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/359/headwip9tf6.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6404/headwip10qx5.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Jay]

Eldwick

Yeah theres alot to improve on. I think you need to look at facial anatomy as a whole and how things line up. You shouldnt even have contemplated a texture this early on. Get over to www.3d.sk and have a look at Loomis's drawings of facial anatomy. These simple basics will help you judge form and placement.

Also poly count and time is really irrelavant too right now, when the fundamentals arent there.

Turbo Dans example is good of the profile take note of it. But if you can get photo reference then do so, if not I'll post some up

Sorry to be so harsh.


I'll swing by later to see how its going
Cheers for now
Jay

[Eldwick]

Thanks Jay! The harshest comments are the most helpful, I think I might just start over since I dont seem to be getting very far with this model here is a wire of this head before I start over:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9164/wirehu3.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Eldwick]

My next atempt will be to model this man from www.3d.sk

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4691/bgstreetreferences0333ux2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jay]

Cool, just before you do start over, do you save in stages? This is by far the best way to model, then if it goes wrong or you cant undo something you can always go to a previous version.

Also the mesh is way to dense at this stage, keep it as low as possible until proportions/features cant be tweaked anymore, then divide the mesh or create new loops and build up.

Also the loops on this are to small or none existant, especially around the nose areas, I'll do a sketch and post for you...

Jay

[Jay]

Cool, just before you do start over, do you save in stages? This is by far the best way to model, then if it goes wrong or you cant undo something you can always go to a previous version.

Also the mesh is way to dense at this stage, keep it as low as possible until proportions/features cant be tweaked anymore, then divided the mesh or create new loops and build up.

Also the loops on this are to small or none existant, especially around the nose areas, I'll do a sketch and post for you...

Jay

[Jay]

Okay, loops and a bit of form basics...the loops make up the muscle mass under the skin. This allows for near correct deformation when animating

Cheers
Jay

[tweetytunes]

hay man, heads a vast imprvement over the very first post in this thread and i think if you follow jays wonderful advice you`ll crack it.
I would also look in to paying at www.3d.sk as I have found it to be one of the better things I have paid for.
referance is ALWAYS the key and that place has buckets of it. (just don`t get lost looking at all the pritty ladyies :p), just look at the differance 3 or 4 images here made.

keep at it

[Eldwick]

Thanks again Jay! Yes I do save in stages, or atleast duplicate and hide. When I get back from school I will upload my wire so far.

tweetytunes: Ya I think I will purchase a membership later today so I can get those high res pictures

[Eldwick]

Okay here is what I did today keep in mind loops and staying with the ref pic:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8251/headwip1xv8.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7296/headwip2ga5.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8086/headwip3pd6.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Jay]

Good start, much much better. Though you have too much detail around the lips at this stage and what is the purpose of the edges above the lips that end on a 5 sider? remove it. Get rid of the tight loop thats near the lips as well, concentrate on form alone right now because thats where the previous character went wrong, and by keeping the head res low you can do it easier with arsing with the details...

Also I woundnt have the lips or nose done either until the rest of the loops were positoned better. Try to keep them as evenly space as possible. Sometimes you may have to redirect and split new loops to replace old ones and by have the two elements above done now will only make it harder.


Still a long way to go but keep it up

Jay

[Eldwick]

Got fed up with the way I was making that last head, so now im trying poly by poly modeling.

Before I show you my progress these are the tutorials I have been using:

First try:http://www.maya3d.dk/Tutorials/HeadModeling/HeadModeling.htm

Second:http://www.3dtutorials.sk/index.php?id=20

Now:http://www.3dtutorials.sk/index.php?tutorials=4&software=0&id=43

Ref:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7532/bgpeople0139bi4.jpg

WIP:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9974/wip1ox6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jay]

!!!!!!!!

What?!!!


Are you sure dude, talk about stepping back!! This way will kill your patience if you couldnt hack the last head.

Juy

[Eldwick]

In the last one, I wasn't really learning how to model the head. It was so step by step, and redoing the loops that I didnt understand what was going on. Its not that I couldn't handel it, it's more of that I wouldnt be able to do it again if I didnt fallow the instructions again, step by step.

[Eldwick]

Okay... whatcha think?

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8683/wip2uk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[OneToe]

hey eldwick
nice face loops. most proportions are ok, but the nose needs to be detailed; there is not difference between the tip and the nostrils. you got a smooth blending from tip to nostrils but the tip has to be thinner and more pointed. search for a side-blueprint of a human head.
onetoe

[Eldwick]

Been busy lately so havnt updated in a while, but here is the next update

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4397/wip1jp4.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Rostoons]

This is definately looking better but it is beginning to look more like a cartoon type model. It may be worth getting more reference images to try and make it look more realistic (if that's what you're going for, if it's not keep at it mate, looking good) because from the angle of the pic, it looks like the chin and the jawbone are far too narrow to be realistic.

And I just have to say, that is one mother of a nose ;)

[Eldwick]

okay thank you Rostoons, I went over it and tried for a more realistic face:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6133/wip3rx7.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Eldwick]

Moved the ears back and fixed the mouth, can anyone else spot anything?

hmm still think the chin is to thin will change tommarow
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5827/wip5ni6.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Eldwick]

started body
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8745/wip1is6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Eldwick]

Basic body shape, definition tommarow. Again, still learning all CC helps
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3183/wip1dk1.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7072/wip2xd3.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4056/wip2qb0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[bruce dwyer]

i have just read your thread and being very new to 3d myself have little to add on that level ,but would strongly advice you take a look at a book called Artistic Anatomy
Author(s): PAUL RICHER . firstly it has fantastic drawings of all bits of humans but it also gives great descriptions of what will happen to these bits as they move ... it would have to be at least one of the definitive texts, well worth a look ... soft cover is only about $30.00 or somthing ... Hogarth is also worth a look its a little more for cartooning but still very good

[Eldwick]

Thanks bruce dwyer, Ill look into it, did you buy it online or can I just pick one up at ate store?

[bruce dwyer]

i bought mine such along time ago there were still a few of the stuburn dinosaurse about picking the ice off their nostrils waiting for the the weather to turn. but i digress, any art supply shop worth its weight should sell it, otherwise i found a copy for sale at Amazon it said $18.00 but i dont know what nationality i was looking at

[bruce dwyer]

Firstly i would just like to make it clear i am very new to 3d . but one thing that i notice that may give you grief later is the groin area between the legs you have them splitting off a single point but structuraly the legs spring from the out side of the hips and their is allways a space between the legs ... even in the case of extremely fat people this area is tied with facial straps meaning that it can not build up fat at the joint so there is always a crease here that generaly goes down to where there is meat. thighs may swell back out all most imediatly but the gap is still there

[OneToe]

hi eldwick
your torso looks quite good and those legs seem to be also well shaped so far. but u have to work on the anatomy of the arms, especially the positions of the muscels. i think u got to read some anatomy theory, because u have to understand where a muscel have to be to move a part of the body. you gave the lower arm a muscle, which is hanging like a sack to the bones - in reality this is a thin muscle which is streched by a sinew, so there cant be such a transition from lower arm to hand. for exemple. the arms may be a bit to long..
the part between the legs was discussed yet, i would just slide down the hip loops and get a new loop between so u have some vertex to define the required space for some genitals.
ah, and there is no smooth transition form head to torso, maybe there are phong breaks [maya noob suggestion]
so far. nice process!
onetoe

[Eldwick]

God, Im retarted! I knew there was something wrong with the legs, how could I have forgoten to leave space for my best friend?! Anyway thank you so much for the advise, Ill look into the arms and how I should go about doing the loops and such.

[Eldwick]

Havn't dont much besides make room for a crotch but I was going through the new features and saw this "turnabout" thing under the Animate tab and decided to try it out.

Turnabout (http://www.synergycompanies.com/bodywip1.mpg)

(If it seems to skip frames just use the timeslider)

I think Ill be doing alot more turnabouts its a great way for other people to crit the model.