New Project: District 9 Tessla Riffle

[ctbram]

It's been a while since I have had the time to work on a model and I was thinking of doing some kind of futuristic weapon.

I was planning to rent District Nine this weekend and like the look of the arc gun. So I might do that.

The good thing about the arc gun is that Weta sold full size props from the movie of several of the weapons including the arc gun so there is a metric butt ton of reference images on the net.

I have seen some models floating around but I would like to build my own.

I have been downloading lots of images and have been studying the details.

[bullet1968]

I like the sound of it ctbram.......

cheers bullet

[stwert]

Super cool. I love that movie.

[ctbram]

I found tons of reference photos and decided to start with these.

Note that the drawing has 7 of the electrode do-hickies while the images of the replica has 6. I decided to go with the 7 in the drawing because they look cool and more is more gooder!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_side.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=side.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_side_photo.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=side_photo.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_threeQuarter.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=threeQuarter.jpg)

Here are some AO renders. I must have done 5 different versions of the bottle connector before settling on this version.

I was just experimenting with stuff and changed up the front part of the thing that looks like a tuning fork is stuck into. It's quite different then the references. I might keep it or I might remodel it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_01.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_01.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_05.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_05.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_06.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_06.jpg)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_02.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_02.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_03.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_03.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_04.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_04.jpg)

I really like the kind of mechanical / organic form of the barrel section. One of the reason I wanted to model this gun is to see how I would handle modeling that section. It was an interesting challenge.

[daverave]

Realy nice detail...............dave

[ben hobden]

'metric butt ton'...ha ha.

This looks like its gonna be cool.

[G-Man]

HEy Crash ! good to see you back on teh forum.
Like the work as it is coming along mate, keep the posts coming.

G-man

[bullet1968]

Hey man that looks f*****g good first up!!! good to see you back in the game young fella.....keep it coming man!

Cheers bullet

[ctbram]

Hard surface modeling in Maya is really HARD!


I do not even want to say how long it took me to create the two bottom pieces and they are only blocked in!

I have not had a lot of experience with other modeling packages but I find Maya to be a real challenge to do anything hard surface that is even remotely complex.

For organics and artsy fartsy crap it's okay but trying to control hard edges and not look CG is a pain!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_07.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_07.jpg)

[tweetytunes]

"Hard surface modeling in Maya is really HARD!" - hell no its a snap - but it looks like you have gotten the hang of it - some nice work there

[ben hobden]

How did you go about making that part up the top? With the pine cone kind of effect? I like that part alot, is each segment one piece of geometry?

[ctbram]

Here is that part broken down for you. It's all cylinder primitives combined with a bit of tweaking...

The prop flows into the sides but I prefer the look of the tighter edge where the top cone comes in.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_08.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_08.jpg)


I know hard surface modeling, I was a professional surface modeler and Maya is a pain in the ass to make clean hard surfaces! Especially negative space like holes and notches. The geometry gets out of control very fast and the modeling tool set is very limited, in particular, poor axis control, and very finicky, limited, and in some cases just plain missing extrusion , beveling, chamfering, and thickening tools, and very poor accuracy. Fine for artists I guess.

I still prefer the challenge of hard surface modeling to subdividing to 80 gazillion polygons and sculpting.

[bullet1968]

Jeez its damn good to have you back!!!! I like the look so far mate...despite your concerns on Maya's foibles.

cheers bullet

[ColdWave]

So if not Maya for hard surface which One ?
Modo, Max , XSI ?

Yes hardsurface is frustrating in maya... But with Draster Nex and some other plugins it's not that hard after all...

Good job so far... I really should get more into hard surface too. But i'm thinking of switching to another package just for the hardsurface modeling...

[ctbram]

working on the bottom section of the stock...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_10.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_10.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_09.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_09.jpg)


--- I have a feeling that modo is better for hard surface work. It has a far more extensive modeling tool set, better axis control, better accuracy. That being said I have been tinkering with it and I find the UI combersome (.

I looked into Draster NEX and I refuse to buy it because of their greedy draconian licensing for one thing. I have maya on several machines and I am not going to have to buy humteen licenses to use it. Also, quite frankly I believe all the NEX features should be part of standard Maya! I used to use a few addons but they kept breaking or no longer being supported as new versions of maya came out. So I tend to avoid becoming to dependent on addons.

[ben hobden]

Modo has been praised several times on here over the past year or so. Ive only ever used Maya, and I think I'd find it hard to switch to anything else - not that I have the money to do so even if I wanted to!

[ctbram]

Playing with the vent portal things on the sides of the lower part of the stock...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_11.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_11.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_12.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_12.jpg)

[ben hobden]

whats your aims with this project CT?

[ctbram]

More tinkering with the vents...

exploring different looks for the vents.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_14.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_14.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_15.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_15.jpg)


My aims? I just had some free time, the first in like 7 months and felt like modeling something. I plan to model it and texture it.

[ctbram]

Worked on the grip bits a little...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_19.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_19.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_20.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_20.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_21.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_21.jpg)

[ben hobden]

when you say you worked professionally as a hard surface modeller CT, what was it you did?

[G-Man]

i have to say #1.... Still looking great Rick.
#2. i find no problem working hard surfaces in maya, Its as natural as breathing to me most of the time, sure i find some shaped i have to think about for a few minutes here and there, figure out where i went wrong, but all in all its all intuitive .. Mayhaps as we all know maya has a lot of fallacies in the modeling area, but all the tools given in maya are at the very least adequate to get the job done, adn some of them are much better then other packages offer.. I'm by no means saying that maya is better then the others in this specific area, but i will say that maya is the best there is all around at least in my opinion. if there is a tool you want, Learn mel and write it yourself. its what the studios do aye?..
My ten cents.
g-man

[ctbram]

I worked as a mechanical engineer building models for finite element analysis in the automotive industry and I can tell you that maya's poly modeling and nurbs tools are sub standard for hard surface work!

I also worked for SGI as a senior systems engineer for high performance graphics and scientific computational analysis.

SGI owned maya for a short period while I worked there and I had the opportunity to chat with several of the programmers. I was also the SE account manager for ILM, Pixar, and Lucas Studios. On a side note I had a chance to watch the modeling and animation guys working on several parts of original Jurassic Park and Terminator movies.

I can tell you all they did for the nurbs portion of maya was implement inferior versions of the code from studiotools while leaving out critical features. That is why things like the round and fillet tools are so unstable and so many people are afraid to use Maya's nurbs tools beyond making blobby starting shapes to convert to a bazillion polys and then sculpt.

If you want accurate nurbs surface models you have to use programs like studiotools, autocad, rhino, solidworks, etc.

If you want better hard surface tools for poly modeling in maya then you either have to buy ridiculously expensive and version specific addons like NEX or write your own as legend suggests. I don't like either of those options.

I stand by what I said before: You can build nice looking hard surface stuff in Maya but it's HARD!

Legend: You say Maya is the "best"? This is based on what experience you have had with using what other surfacing applications? Poly modeling is not the same as surface modeling. Surface modeling is used for building actual things and include packages like autocad, studiotools, rhino, and solidworks and I have used all of them. In these packages you have very accurate control of bevels, chamfers, rounds, fillets and tangency and surface flow. These are all critical things in hard surface modeling not just for manufacturing but for any hard surface modeling. They are all sadly either very poorly implemented in the nurbs portion of maya or unstable or missing completely from the poly portion of maya!

Words like "easy" and "hard" are relative. If you have not used applications designed to build accurate hard surfaced things then what is your basis for comparison?

I started this model to give myself a break from a very long and stressful 10 months and the pressure is not subsiding, so I do not care to get into any more pissing contests! If my comments based on my experiences bothers people here I just won't bother to post my work anymore.

I have said about all I need to say on this topic.

[G-Man]

Rick mate, First off , We're friends, spoke on the phone several times, Hell i would venture to say i'm one of only a hand full of people who have even tried to keep up with you and make sure you were doing ok in the last ten months that being said, Lets make sure we are strait on that My opinion and how it differs from yours in relation to Maya and the pro's and con's of it as a modeling package in whole is just that a different in opinion, not a personal attack against you, if it came across as such i do whole heartedly apologize.

Now, as far as your question to me about my previous experience with graphics packages. I have used Nendo, ( old ass program from the early nineties, ) Rhino, 3ds, I've actually had a college professor about ten years ago show me some of lightwave though i don't recall much of the interface form the 5-6 hours i got to mess with it, i do recall i did not like it. I've used Bryce ( Landscape generation program mainly, though you can model in it) ...I've messed around with terragen, (HAte it) I've dabbled with XSI. I just personally chose to follow the Mayan path. Never messed with Modo much, at least as of yet. So i do have experience with alot of major packages out there, and i have 5 Years and over 3000 projects with auto-cad behind me as a civil draftsman, so i know all about its Tools as well, and you can rest assured that i would never, NEVER use auto-cad for any form of 3d work, Simply because i am
not a structural engineer.

Your opinions on this subject as a Structural engineer are just that, form the point of view of a structural engineer, Not an artist. Perhaps mate, you should open your eyes to the world of art and leave structural design in the past?

Which i believe is a good lead into my next point mate.

You are looking at modeling from an engineers standpoint, or so it would seem, trying to get 'perfect' surfaces for hard surface that you would send to a plasma cutter to cut the shapes out for Assembly at a later date. Maya is a program for artists, which i might say you are a damn good one, But you need to look at it as such, it was never meant to produce structurally accurate representations of anything that could be used for an engineer. Yes sure you can create these things, but that is not its purpose.. it is meant to create objects that are easy on the eyes and look good in movies and games. That's all, and it is damn good at that, hence why it is a standard tool of the industry for Special effects applications. We all know of the short comings of maya here, and you can always feel free to share your opinions on a subject of graphical importance here, as that's what this forum is for, But please, my friend...Please i implore you to be open to hear the opinions of those who read your posts, to see your work, and get your ideas..it should go without saying, that if you are going to share your opinions you should be willing and receptive of those opinions around you as well. IT is not an argument when there is a discussion taking place about the ups and downs of a specific software in this industry. only a simple discussion among friends.

This being said, I hope mate, that this friendly discussion about differing opinions does not hamper our future friendship. I've always tried to stand by you as a friend through some bad times in your personal life as i am sure you recall, But I will state my opinion and the facts as i see them, just as you do..as all friends should

G-man

[David]

Guys sounds like your both friends, and this looks like it's going to turn into one of those pointless Mac vs PC discussions.

Remember arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.


Dave :)

[ctbram]

Worked on the back upper part of the stock, the down pipes from the gun barrel, and started to block in the carburetor looking thing on the top.


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_25.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_25.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_24.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_24.jpg)

A lot of stuff in this area is still being blocked in.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_26.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_26.jpg)

[David]

Looking pretty impressive so far. Looks clean which I like.

I look forward to seeing it finished.

Dave :)

[Nilla]

Amazing detail work, it looks really neat. I also look forward to seeing this progress.

[bullet1968]

Looking good as usual Rick...starting to be nice and detailed now...I like the look of it (even if it is a weird lookin gun).

I can understand your frustration with software....I am but a meagre Surveyor...but I have to use up to 3 programs to achieve what I need these days. So I too feel what you are saying...the only difference is Im usually being yelled at by some halfwit Supervisor who doesnt understand the sats are still in orbit...the software is asleep...LOL (or the Surveyor...double LOL).

I too have had trouble getting my head around what very little I know to model....I expect AutoCAD or Civilcad functions and it doesnt have them LOL..though I still think they do in my head. (Im still waiting or searching for a good scale tutorial...David..LOL)...trying to scale and model a house is driving me CRAZY.

All points raised are valid etc but in the end...its the software guys who make the desicions on what is required...which is a shame sometimes as they cant always see the need for critical (to us as users) functions. Again the masses win and the expert users just have to work around...bloody painful stuff.

Anyway keep up the good work mate.....I hope there will be an arc involved in the finished product?

Cheers Ant;)

[ctbram]

Updates:

- Added another component to the rear upper stock (the fan looking gizmo)
- Started to detail the box where the lower pipes enter
- Added some misc details

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_31.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_31.jpg)

Negative space is tough! You have to use all kinds of tricks to make it work. The little notches in the big tank on the back upper stock cut through the beveled edge of the tank. It was fun getting clean insets.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_32.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_32.jpg)

[bullet1968]

Are you going for texture on this mate??? or greyscale?

Looks good.....details are brilliant.....

cheers bullet

[ctbram]

Yeah I want to texure it. I would like to go with the white, orange and black paint scheme.

[G-Man]

When you texture do you ;pan to have it weathered and worn?...scratched and scuffed. ect?...or painted as if brand new?...
Looking good still on the modeling, cant really see anything to criticize on it mate.

g-man

[ctbram]

Slow day today.

Update:

- Lower barrel is pretty much done
- Did a little work on the back of the stock

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_35.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_35.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_34.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_34.jpg)

[bullet1968]

Like this Rick??these colours? they look nice

cheers bullet

[honestdom]

looks nice

this was posted on here a while ago.
http://srv01.simply3dworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32921

[ctbram]

bullet: That is one of the reference images I posted at the start of this project. Check back on page 1. But yes that is the paint scheme I am planing on.

hammer: yes, I mentioned at the start that a tutorial for the arc gun exsisted some place, but I only saw a picture of the finished work (not as large as the one in the link you provided though).

This is my own version. I don't have the tutorial. You can see comparing the two mine is very different and significantly more accurate.

My model is based on the drawing (see starting ref images posted at the start) and has a number of differences from the one modeled in the tut.

Thanks for the references but I just want to be clear, I do not own nor have I ever seen that tutorial. This model is completely my own design using my own modeling methods, and is not associated with the version in that tutorial in anyway.

[honestdom]

haha, i wasn't suggesting it was. thought i would just post it. sorry for the confusion.

[ctbram]

update:

- worked on the bottom can/bottle thingy
- the release mechanism
- misc googaws

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_37.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_37.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_39.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_39.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_40.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_40.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_38.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_38.jpg)

hammer: no worries. I just did not want others to think I only get my inspiration from tutorials. The modeling in my version goes far beyond what I can see in the screen shot from the tutorial. It looks okay but I wanted to do something with more detail like a hero class model.

[ctbram]

I misread the reference images in a couple places. I was going through them again looking for details for the box in the center of the stock frame and I noticed there is actually a tube that runs from the last set of electrode thingies to the main part of the barrel.

I already added a detail there that I made up because I did not realize it was this tube. Since I already modeled a clamp at the part of the barrel where the tube would go I routed it it up and into the top of what I call the carburetor box.

Let me know if it looks okay. I also noticed that the bracket and handle are actually different. I was missing a lot of reference detail in the z direction. In the prop the entire bracket narrows in so the handle is narrower.

I noticed the width did not look right so I narrowed the handle section until the proportions looked better. My version has a slightly wider handle as a result but it still looks okay, so I plan to stick with it since rebuilding would wreck a ton of work I did on the rear grip pieces.

Proportionally, I think things are looking okay. Let me know what you think?


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_41.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_41.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_43.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_43.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_42.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_42.jpg)

PS - This is a good reason I normally advocate blocking the ENTIRE model out, then go back and add details in stages. But I was obsessed with seeing the high quality detailed portion of the pine cone barrel and after that just kept focusing on each part the same way. Oh well, relearned an old lesson.

[ctbram]

No one has asked but just in case you were curious here is a wire...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_44.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_44.jpg)

... and smoothed...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_48.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_48.jpg)

The model is all quads except for a couple planar faces that I still have to dice up. I save that step for last just before I do the uv layouts.

This gun will not deform and so technically the planar ngons are fine; however, I know it causes several people here severe anal anguish to see ngons, so never fear they will be addressed in the end.

[ctbram]

That tube I added was looking a little to thin and wispy and was not catching the light very well. However, the diameter at one end was very restricted, so my solution was to make the tube a kind of corrugated flexible tube.

I think this has better proportions and will be more visible in the final render.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_47.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_47.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_46.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_46.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_45.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_45.jpg)

[bullet1968]

That is looking super...as ususal from you Rick. Sorry yes I should have gone back to page 1 but I havent had much of a life lately due to work...so I have fallen into a trap of Google and post LOL...apologies.

hmmmmmmmmm ngons eh....bahahah I have several laying around...they dont eat much so I leave them alone...LOL

cheers bullet

[ctbram]

Running out of easy bits to do ...

Update:

- Worked on the upper back can/bottle shaped thingy. Cutting the slots was tricky. I had to take a couple shots at it to get it right.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_55.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_55.jpg)

Some full shots. I think the proportions are looking okay.

I have been trying to stick to the drawings and the prop images as much as possible. What do you guys think of the changes I have made? I hope they are adding to the visual appeal of the gun.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_54.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_54.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_53.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_53.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_52.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_52.jpg)

[Mayaniac]

Nice. Some sexy details there.

Looks very clean too.

All the little details you have added really give the eyes some nice places to bounce around.

[Jay]

Nice work. It has a nice retro style to the design - almost Flash Gordon.

Mind the divisions on the final smooth as it looks a little unbalanced and over the top. Especially between the main stock frame work to the gas cylinders. It would be pointless to divide it that much, as judging from the topo theres enough there for a standard poly smooth '3' there.

This would be a nice model to paint up in Mari.....yum!!!

With regard to the hard surface modeling in maya ( I know, dog with a bone) I can see the arguement from both sides. Maya does have issues with hard surfaces especially if it is a complex design to be saught after so you have to weigh up the methodology of how you are going to make it it.

I recall the seam and fillet issues in maya back in the day when everyone and his dog was using them as standard. I was taught alot of modelling techniques from an Alias Wavefront guy back then and even he said it was a dog to use, it inspired him to write a script to correct issues after using each command to rectify the problems. Fortunately after that we all started using subds and then came the poly smooth - such is life LOL


look forward to the rest

Jay

[ctbram]

Thanks for the feedback Jay.

All the smoothed parts are just poly smooth preview key 3. The upper back tank needed more geometry unsmoothed to hold the edges in those slots without making the can go all lumpy near the rounded ends I am sure you know what I mean.

I did that darn outer can a bunch of times! I started with a 16-sided poly cylinder, then a 20, and finally ended up at 40-sided before the slots were clean. I also tried other methods like booleaning it and starting from a flat surface and bending it and I even built a nurbs version. The nurbs version actually worked well but I wanted to keep the model in polys. The final method was to make diagonal cuts and delete faces and allow natural rounding at the tips when smoothed.

Here it is before smoothing...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_56.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_56.jpg)

Negative spaces in poly models are a bugger and a half! It's easy to pile things up and out but pushing things in can be problematic. My solution is always to add more geometry while unsmoothed to reduce the area of effect when you push faces inward (if that makes sense to you).

The poly smooth preview key 3 is equivalent to a poly smooth with 2 divisions. My tendency is to model with enough geometry where that level is sufficient. I think it is because I keep toggling it as a model and so that level of smooth is where I am always focusing my attention.

For machined looking parts I tend to use bevel rather then smooth. But I must agree that I also have been thinking the stock frame bevel is a bit extreme and have been considering redoing it. From the minimum distance needed to see the entire gun the bevel is not to big a problem but as you get in tight on things it it starts scream "I am CG!!!!".

I have three ways to go, bevel the bevels, reduce the bevel, or smooth, and so I keep focusing on the easy bits trying to avoid the issue. I was waiting for someone else to notice it before I turned my attention back to it. I'll address it today and see what you think.

There may be some other single bevel parts that need a bit of refining.

[Jay]

Cool mate, yeah I know all about the divisions, sometimes they are more hassle with more loops than with less LOL. Im a bit wary of Mayas bevel tool, as it does produce some oddities depending on the geo in question - there used to be a script called 'bevel plus' that was much better, but I dont know if it even exists now. It used to be over at Highend3d (now CreativeCrash.com)

Look forward to the update

cheers
Jay

[ctbram]

Here you go Jay I took your advice and cleaned up the harsh edge bevel on the frame. I touched up a few other bevels as well.

Let me know if it looks right. I can always adjust it more.

Some things to note:

1. the rear bottle/tank is floating now because it will be cradled in a bracket I have yet to model.

2. In the frame only shot the floating bolts are okay as the handle bracket covers them and is hidden in the shot.

3. I believe bevel plus has been added to the maya poly modeling tools as of maya 8.5 as I recall. I agree bevel in just about any 3d package can create wonky results.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_57.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_57.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_58.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_58.jpg)

Some full shots...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_61.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_61.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_60.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_60.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_59.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_59.jpg)

[Jay]

Looks great - nice work dude

Jay

[ctbram]

Thanks Jay!

Here is the back tank/bottle bracket and detail pretty much done.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_65.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_65.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_64.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_64.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_62.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_62.jpg)

To Do:

- The trigger
- The shoulder piece
- The greebles in the center of the stock
- The greebles and wires on top of the stock going to the upper back bottle

The greeble in the center and the wires are what really look cool and I can't wait to get them done.

Then it's on to cleanup, and UV layout.

[bullet1968]

Looking good mate....cant wait for the texture!!

cheers bullet

[Johndoe050]

Wow I think the gun looks awesome. Like bullet said I cant wait for the textures.
I am quit new at this so i got some questions. What do you mean with a smooth '3'? Is that a smooth with 3 division levels? And the model i am seeing now is that smoothed? And why do you build the back canister with poly's when it is easier to build with nurbs?

[ctbram]

Thanks John,

1. poly preview smooth 3 - means pressing the keyboard 3 key to smooth. The 1-key is unsmoothed, the 2-key is smoothed with unsmoothed cage, and the 3-key is smooth preview.

It's called smooth preview because in older versions of maya you could not render this. You would just get an unsmoothed render. So you would have to do a poly smooth with 2 divisions to get an equivalent render. From Maya 8 on I believe you no longer need to do the smooth and can render directly from the 3-key preview smooth. That is what I do as I rarely need to go beyond 2 divisions of smoothing.

2. Are the renders in my shots smoothed? Yes and no, most of the parts are smoothed 2 divisions (3-key). But many of the parts are also unsmoothed with bevels with 1-4 edges. For machined boxy parts I find beveling to be sufficient and looks more accurate and keeps the poly count lower as you are not dividing poly's that do not need to be divided.

3. I chose to model the upper back can in polys because I found the nurbs version of the can although very clean and accurate to had a different look from the other cans and I did not want to remodel all of them. Also, I find poly uv's more flexible for texturing then nurbs.

[ctbram]

Finished the center instrumentation package...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_69.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_69.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_80.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_80.jpg)

Full shots...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_67.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_67.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_68.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_68.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_66.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_66.jpg)

Getting close to done with the modeling.

To Do:

- Shoulder butt
- Upper instrumentation package and wiring *

* The upper instrumentation and wiring really sell the gun and I am looking forward to finishing those parts.

[ctbram]

Upper wiring stuff...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_73.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_73.jpg)

Middle section and upper wires...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_75.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_75.jpg)

Full shot...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_72.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_72.jpg)

All that is left for modeling is the shoulder butt piece. But I am to tired to be sure atm..

[daverave]

Looking great ctbram, are any of the parts just hard edge not smoothed...............dave

[ctbram]

Everything is either beveled or smoothed.

Beveled == unsmoothed just edge bevels. The entire stock, handle, section with the ribs on top of the bottom stock are all unsmoothed and just edge beveled.

Did something in particular seem to sharp to you?

To me it's a function of how close you intend to get to the object and what the object is and how it would be manufactured IRL. Blocky metal parts and medium to long shots look very good with just edge bevels.

Edge bevels save poly count but on tight shots you can see faceting and cg looking razor sharp edges.

[daverave]

No every thing looks OK to me, I am trying to add hard edge modelling into my work flow (no 3 button) it just hard to understand when to use it and when not.............dave

[ctbram]

Modeling is complete (I think).

Finished the butt and the trigger and did some general clean up.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_77.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_77.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_78.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_78.jpg)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_79.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_79.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_76.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_76.jpg)

The reference image...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_side.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=side.jpg)

Please let me know if anything looks amiss. I will get everything named and in a hierarchy and then move on to laying out the uv's and texturing.

[ctbram]

There was a seam that was uneven in the butt asm and I could not take my eye off it so I had to clean it up. lol

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_83.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_83.jpg)

[Johndoe050]

Looking good. Like that upper wiring picture. Thanks for the info about the smoothing.

[ctbram]

Made a few modeling tweaks. Changed the upper wiring adding two more wires which seems to be what is in the reference image.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_87.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_87.jpg)


Minor refinements...I think it is safe to call the modeling complete.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_88.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_88.jpg)http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_86.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_86.jpg)

[David]

Really like the attention to detail on this, it very much makes the whole model work.

Dave :)

[ctbram]

Thanks Dave.

Do you think the additional wires make it look to busy? I can roll back to the previous version if necessary.

I have the UV's almost done. As you know I am not the best photoshop painter but I am gonna give it a shot.

I really want to see it painted and weathered. I am gonna try to do both paint schemes from the reference images at the start.

[bullet1968]

Im waiting in anticipation for the renders mate...this is a poo hot model man...really dig it.

cheers bullet

[David]

Originally posted by ctbram
Thanks Dave.

Do you think the additional wires make it look to busy? I can roll back to the previous version if necessary.


No I don't think you should take them away. for this type of fantasy gun i really like them, I think they help sell the alien tech thing.

Almost a shame to texture it, you can hide a multitude of sins with some decent textures, but on this theres nothing i can see to hide.

Nice job, again i love the attention to detail.

Dave :)

[G-Man]

Mate, I have to quote David on this one.
couldn't have said it better.
G-man

[ctbram]

Almost done with laying out the UVs.

I plan on spending some time going through a few photoshop tuts before getting into the painting. The last time I tried jumping right into PS and it was a very frustrating experience.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/th_d9gun_ao_94.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view¤t=d9gun_ao_94.jpg)

Photobucket seems to have once again changed their website and I am not sure of the above link is working? All my previous links seem to be okay but if I try to click on this one I get a nasty-gram saying I am trying to perform an illegal operation.

Let me know if it is borked for you guys as well.

[bullet1968]

Looks good from a distance ct....when I click on the image PB tells me the action cannot be performed

cheers bullet

[ctbram]

Well that answers that question. I do not see why the link does not work I have compared it with the previous ones and the syntax looks identical???

Try following this link

http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x185/ctbram/district%209%20arc%20gun/?action=view&current=d9gun_ao_94.jpg

[stwert]

I just put the direct link in [ IMG] tags, so long as the picture itself isn't too huge. Looks alright though from what I can see, looking forward to some black paint.
Oh hey, I can see the image if I click on one of your other ones and click previous to the 1st.

[ctbram]

Personally I hate the site changes to photobucket. I think the last set of changes were horrible and these ones are out right ghastly.

It pops up windows and crap when you try to go to your albums and just seems cluttered and clumsy.

[bullet1968]

Thats better...looks like you have some work ahead of you in PS mate...dont get discouraged...I want to see this little beauty with its Prom outfit please and thank you

Cheers bullet

[CGWolfgang]

I have to agree with all the rest! I'm amazed at the level of detail you managed to get with modeling alone. I'm looking forward to seeing it textured!

[ctbram]

I just noticed the bottom bottle release level went missing. I grabbed it from a backup file. I think I lost it when I was trying to get rid of the mysterious selection set node. I will have to take a full inventory to see if anything else has gone missing.

I should have the UV's done by tomorrow. I sure wish I knew how to texture paint. I am dreading photoshop it gives me indigestion just thinking of having to use it. lol.

I need to get Jay over here for a weekend of drunken debauchery and some texture painting lessons.

[bullet1968]

Well that would be interesting ct!! drunk! you! naaaawwwww

Grab Kurts tut (if you havent already got it) on the character design...that will help.

cheers bullet

[Nilla]

Just posted in your other thread, trying to get away from the texture painting I take it;).

I'm thinking the same as David that model is so nice it will be difficult to do it justice with a texture. I remember seeing a sand speeder on your site and I just watched the tutorial now so it got me thinking about this model as well. In part 11 Jay goes over some really good techniques for creating metallic surfaces in Photoshop, I think it would cover what you need. Do you have the tut? If not let us know and we'll give you the part for model of the month so you can get started no excuses:)

A good site for downloading good quality high res textures is cgtextures.com I've picked up a lot of nice things from there.

[ctbram]

Haha! You guessed it. I had to take a break from the UV's they are almost done. But you are correct, the closer I get to actually having to open photoshop the more I look for ways of putting it off. :)

[Nilla]

I can see why, I'm not a huge fan of texture painting either. A few months back David got me a tablet, I thought it was the best birthday gift ever and spent days happily drawing on my cartoon strip. Then of course came the ulterior motive, he wanted a second color map for the spitfire so he could fly multiple spits around in Maya, and because I like to paint he thought it was right up my street. I think I got through one wing before I almost died of boredom and started to try and find an alternative way of creating damaged camouflage paint with procedurals:)

So if you don't like it, try learning how to work with these instead. It's difficult to get exactly the result you want for something like this it's more commonly used for larger environments, but you can get a good base and convert to bitmap and then add small imperfections for specifics. I know I keep banging on about them but I've seen people who are really good at using procedurals come up with some amazing stuff. And it can really save you a lot of time so it's worth looking into.

[bullet1968]

Miss_Nova!! I am shocked at your aversion to releasing the potential Picasso within you!!! My goodness...tablet and all provided as well! LOL and then using sneaky stealth tactics...tut tut.

cheers bullet

[daverave]

You can bake out colour and occlusion maps from maya then to be toutched up in photoshop, the occlusion can have filters applied in photoshop to get other textures I wish there was a opposit to occlusion as you could then put ware on the edges.............dave

[ctbram]

There are two things that make me put off texturing. One is the photoshop UI. I don't know why but it is like my kryptonite. I really hate it.

The other is that photoshop is a paint program and painting i more then just slapping on matching colors. Like painting with oils there is a lot of technique that only comes from practice and training.

My problem is I put off the practice and can't really find any good training. Then when I have to actually paint I get overwhelmed and give up.

One the bright side I am getting better at UV'ing so if I can lure Jay over here and watch him paint up one of my models I'll be all set!