Bridge two cylinders in a certain way.

[Hermi1988]

Hello everyone,


does anyone know how to bridge 2 cylinders, so it will look something like this glass table from final fantasy 8?

Or some other technique besides bridging?

If possible as newbfriendly as you can get :)

I am pretty new to maya and i wanted to start learning it by recreating a familiar scene, because if i dont have a definite goal to reach, it will never happen for me. And this scene is what i chose, so i would be glad if you can help me to finish it.

Best regards.

Chris

[stwert]

It's a bit hard to see in the image, but can't you just create separate pieces for the tabletop and shelf bit?

[Hermi1988]

It's a bit hard to see in the image, but can't you just create separate pieces for the tabletop and shelf bit?

Well shure, that is what i first thought. But how do i get such a nice shaped form?

I tried the cv curve tool, but than i thought, there maybe is a automated prozess for exactly that issue.

I think i remember it from math class on how to construct such things, but dont know how to apply that to maya.

Does it basically come back to form that curve for the glass plate by hand?

[daverave]

Like you said use the bridge tool create two flat cylinders then bridge the side that was what you wanted...........dave

[Hermi1988]

Like you said use the bridge tool create two flat cylinders then bridge the side that was what you wanted...........dave

I tried that.

It seems to not work for me (red error message).

I created a polygon cylinder, duplicated it, combined it, selected same amount of edges and tried to bridge. What do i do wrong? :o

[daverave]

were are the caps for your cylinders?,Select faces then bridge................dave

[Hermi1988]

were are the caps for your cylinders?,Select faces then bridge................dave



I zeroed them. Do i select the faces wich 'look at each other' or the once on top (in top view)?

[daverave]

Not a good idear to zero them, the ones facing each other or a bit off set so to get some nice curves have a play with it you can use the curve to control how it looks (go to wire mode to select that)............dave

[Hermi1988]

Not a good idear to zero them, the ones facing each other or a bit off set so to get some nice curves have a play with it you can use the curve to control how it looks (go to wire mode to select that)............dave


I'm getting there slowly:

Still there must be something wrong. How exactly to i control the curve?

You basically mean, that I should vary on the faces I select, to get the wanted result?

[stwert]

You're getting there. After you bridge, in the channel box, find the bridge operation and open it up to see the bridge offset; play with that value until they line up. Then add more divisions to the bridge, which you can also do after the fact.

[Hermi1988]

You're getting there. After you bridge, in the channel box, find the bridge operation and open it up to see the bridge offset; play with that value until they line up. Then add more divisions to the bridge, which you can also do after the fact.


Well thank you very much :)

I fiddle around with it a bit. And i'm shure I will post some results another time.

[Hermi1988]

So after a few tries I did come up with that.

(Note that on the reference pic, the left column is actually a ellipse, which made the process a little harder)

I guess I'm getting a good starting point now to build that desk. Does anyone see a critical mistake at this state or shall I continue?


EDIT: Oh and can I delete the caps now? In my understanding I don't need them for the wanted model. I basically copy that thing, scale it down, move it down, build again a ellipse and a circle and finish it up. Deleting the caps should save me some faces of the polycount should'nt it?

EDIT2: Hm I guess I reselect the faces again, so the curve is more tangent to the round shapes.

[daverave]

Not sure how you ended up with all those sud divisions on your bridge you dont need all of them, the caps you can redo the edge flow to be all quads but I would not delete them unless it was for a game engine that did not require them...............dave

[Hermi1988]

How do I get the 'roundness' of the smooth display (Button 2 or 3 pressed)?

If I smooth the whole model it has tons more polygons than in the smoth display preview. But if I don't smooth at all, then I dont get the bridge nicely formed... :(

I like to have it like the preview here. So agian, how do I get the same result as pushing 2 on keyboard?

[nov2011]

If I smooth the whole model it has tons more polygons than in the smoth display preview.

The preview mode also has tons more polygons - it just doesn't display them. You don't have to smooth it though, cause MR renders the preview mode anyway;

otherwise smooth, or do proxy subdivision and play with the settings, but you'll always end up with more polygons because everything is made of straight lines, so the curve you see is basically a set of many straight lines at various angles.

[Hermi1988]

The preview mode also has tons more polygons - it just doesn't display them. You don't have to smooth it though, cause MR renders the preview mode anyway;

otherwise smooth, or do proxy subdivision and play with the settings, but you'll always end up with more polygons because everything is made of straight lines, so the curve you see is basically a set of many straight lines at various angles.

So in terms of polycount, wouldn't it be wiser than to just subdivide the bridge like I did a few posts before? The ellipses wouldn't be touched then and I should have a lower polycount at the end of the model. On the other hand I just have to look up the max polycount per model of my desired engine and take care of optimization later right?

[Hermi1988]

So, just finished my first rough prototype. It's getting in shape but I'm far from satisfied with the proportions and all.

[nov2011]

I'd just keep it all one piece. If you want to lower poly-count you might wanna use less divisions on the cylinders. If you plan to use the proxy subdivision or smooth it later it will add divisions anyway.

I don't know how to optimize it for game engines, but for now.. I'd just focus on one thing: the visual appeal of the model instead of limitations of game engines.. there's A LOT to learn in just hard surface modelling itself. I imagine other areas of 3D are also quite vast.

[Hermi1988]

I'd just keep it all one piece. If you want to lower poly-count you might wanna use less divisions on the cylinders. If you plan to use the proxy subdivision or smooth it later it will add divisions anyway.

I don't know how to optimize it for game engines, but for now.. I'd just focus on one thing: the visual appeal of the model instead of limitations of game engines.. there's A LOT to learn in just hard surface modelling itself. I imagine other areas of 3D are also quite vast.

I actually got to learn how to sculpt in one single peace. I just don't know how to build a cylinder out of the top bridge piece for example.

Regarding the game engine: I don't want it to be playable. As stated in my first post, I just want to recreate a scene from my beloved FF8. The endgoal is to make that one isolated room with as good as possible looking interior, rendered in realtime in cryengine 3 free sdk.

[nov2011]

It would be pretty hard to sculpt (and texture) it as one piece, usually you just sculpt the pieces separately, then you can merge polygons to make it into one piece. As I said I don't know anything about optimizing or modelling for different game engines - so someone else will give you a better answer, but from what I hear you might wanna do some research and set your scene up in specific way (e.g.: for unreal, the grid units have to match unreal editor grid units) and so on.. but if you want to do a "room with as good as possible looking interior" then you can just animate camera flying through in Maya and then render it with all the fancy reflection, shadows and lightning of Maya.

[Hermi1988]

It would be pretty hard to sculpt (and texture) it as one piece, usually you just sculpt the pieces separately, then you can merge polygons to make it into one piece. As I said I don't know anything about optimizing or modelling for different game engines - so someone else will give you a better answer, but from what I hear you might wanna do some research and set your scene up in specific way (e.g.: for unreal, the grid units have to match unreal editor grid units) and so on.. but if you want to do a "room with as good as possible looking interior" then you can just animate camera flying through in Maya and then render it with all the fancy reflection, shadows and lightning of Maya.


Well I will look into that once I got some models clean and finished, and I figure this might take a while :P

But the journey is supposed to be fun not the result alone.

[ctbram]

Hello, I have been following this thread and was going to comment but it is easier and I hope clearer to make a video for you. There are of course many ways to accomplish the same task in Maya and you have already received some great advice from the regular SM crew.

But since you are new to Maya I thought making this video of one way to model that desk might help you by showing a typical workflow, some of the key concepts like control edges, how to use some of the marking menus and selection shortcuts and such.

They always seem to come out longer then I plan, I pontificate I guess. I hope you find it helpful though and welcome to Maya modeling.

I would strongly recommend you consider watching some tutorials. Learning proper work flows is really the key to getting the most out of Maya and it's very easy to develop bad habits that are harder to unlearn.

Welcome and good luck,
Rick

http://youtu.be/dxsl8WbRpDM

[bullet1968]

I did it with 2 cylinders (tops only) then used the create 3 point arc tool to get my arcs. Select the arc tool then place the 3 points where you think they should go. BEFORE you hit enter to complete the command you can hover with your mouse over the white box surrounding the point. MMB and you can move them around...also if you hold down the V key, then MMB over a point it will snap to the vertice you choose. the middle point of the 3 just MMB after you have anchored the outer points and move it to get a nice shape.

I then lofted between the arcs I created and converted to poly, then deleted faces on the cylinders that werent needed. Combined the 2 cylinder and my newly formed table top and snapped verts together. Getting the right arc look wasnt too hard but it is hard to tell from the ref image what sharpness they have...thats an artistic licence I think mate LOL...hope it goes well for you.

Well thats odd ct...your post wasnt there when I was typing this...and the diff in time is huge!!! Hermi here are a couple of pics from my way...as ctbram said there are so many ways to do things in Maya. A couple of short tutorials will do you the world of good mate

cheers bullet

[Hermi1988]

Wow :o thank you guys for both of your efforts :)

I will look into both solutions.


EDIT: Quick questions regarding quads:

a) Quads are polygons with 4 corners right?

b) Does inserting extra edges (I mean them for quads, not the support edges) create a higher polycount?

[ctbram]

A) yes and ngons are polys with more then 4 sides and tris are 3-sided

B) No, not really because in the end everything is converted into triangles for rendering so if you have a 50-sided ngon Maya will divide it into triangles at render time. However, you have no control over how it will be divided and so it is better for you to divide it up.

The primary reason to avoid ngons is that they can cause artifacts if the model deforms and the area with ngons becomes non-planar. Also, they can have an effect when texturing.

People sometimes make to big a deal of poly count. In a high poly model you have four kinds of edges - the ones required to define the shape and silhouette, the support edges to define the tension of the edges, then clamping edges (which no one really every talks about), and then some modelers will actually add additional edges in areas so the polys are evenly spaced to improve uv spacing for texturing.

[Hermi1988]

Okay thanks for the insight! Soon I will be able to start modeling for today. Looking forward to apply your tipps.

[daverave]

Rick you should put that in the free Friday section to help the newbies out.......Stwert no dave LOL

[ctbram]

damn you guys and your gold medals! I just see the gold metal and for some reason think of you Dave! ;)

I'll ask Nilla to put that over in the free Friday section.

[Hermi1988]

@Rick

Instead of inserting the edges to make them quads, can I also leave the subdivision caps at 1 and remove the unnecessary edges in order to create quads?

I figured it is a better workflow (in general) to leave the caps and maybe deleting them rather then deleting them right at the beginning and maybe need them later on which may be more difficult to add.

EDIT:

Nevermind.

I saw that I also have to delete the extra edges on the beveled side which all in all results in more work :D
Besides learning the insert edge tool is more valuable than learning how to delete stuff.

[Hermi1988]

First prototype by the tutorial of Rick. I tweaked the bridge a bit more to my liking but all in all I worked pretty close to the instructions.

Awesome, now it's a better looking model than before which has also a lower polycount as a nice sideeffect. I'm really having fun right now.

[bullet1968]

I dont want to fumble you hermi but are you using any sort of scale for this???? this is something you will end up having to do for assets like this. It is very difficult to get good scale in Maya BUT you can sort of cheat with known parameters. What I mean by this...if you have a character...and have it scaled to a human height...then your desk my not "fit" the character or room etc. :cry:

cheers bullet

[Hermi1988]

I dont want to fumble you hermi but are you using any sort of scale for this???? this is something you will end up having to do for assets like this. It is very difficult to get good scale in Maya BUT you can sort of cheat with known parameters. What I mean by this...if you have a character...and have it scaled to a human height...then your desk my not "fit" the character or room etc. :cry:

cheers bullet


This is something I worry about a little bit later. I'm learning the important stuff first. When I am ready, I will export some reference objects from CryEngine into Maya and start working on the proper scaled models from scratch.

All I do right now are prototypes if you wish, which will never see the 'light of an engine' :d