The Mask - displacement?

[Philcc]

Hey guys!

I've got a mask (attachement) that I already modeled. My problem is to get the surface on my 3D mask.
It's a kind of gypsum with clothsurface. I dont know exactly.

I already tried to do it with a displacement map, but I am not able make a picture where maya will see where the ups and downs in the surface are.

I would really appreciate your help, as this is a very important project and I'm stuck :)

Thank you!

Hope everyone enjoyed the holidays :)

[ctbram]

You could bring the model into mudbox and apply a vector displacement map.

Vector Displacement: Zbrush, Mudbox & Maya Workflow Explained - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kb3uC1nY7Q)

[Philcc]

Hey,

how would this be different to a displacement map?

I never worked with mudbox or zbrush before. Wouldnt it be easier to tweak the displacement options or why would you prefer mudbox to do this?

Thanks!

[ctbram]

The difference is explained in the video.

With normal maps you do not get actual geo so which you can see in the silhouette.

With normal displacement you get geo but it cannot do things like undercuts.

With vector displacement you get more detail and it can do things like undercuts.

[Philcc]

Do I need this kind of undercut feature?

Actually I just need those "ups" and these i have to generate somehow with a dispalcement map.
The problem ist that the surface on the mask is so tiny and detailed that i cannot generate any ups and downs so that maya will know how to work with the displacement map.

Is there any trick I can do this?
Because when I use my current displacement map as a vector displacement, i will have the same problem.

It looks like this now:

The first picture is a displacement map

The second with a normal map

The third is the displacement map. It just doesnt work


I am not able to get the ups and downs like in my reference picture.
It's not a very complicated structure, but I cant manage to do it right :/

Greatly appreciate your help :(

[ctbram]

Okay. Did you even take the time to watch the video?

It explains the EXACT problem you are describing with normal displacement maps! They do not give very good high frequency details.

Watch the video. You can see the difference. You can keep fiddling with normal displacement and you may or may not get it working but I do not know any magic recipe that will make it easy.

[Gen]

I think part of the problem is that the displacement map currently has a lot of shadowing in the image, I can see why using it as is could cause accuracy issues. If you have Photoshop, you can try applying a high pass filter with a low radius to the image. I use that all the time for generating the base for bump maps.

[Philcc]

Hey Rick,

of course I watched your video and this is a great extension but I am afraid that this is for another purpose.

I am sorry if I described my problem not clear enough.
The detail and the crispiness of my ups and downs that I get with my current displ map are totally fine.

The problem is that maya is generating me too many ups that are not on my reference surface.
If you compare my displ render with my reference file you can see that my render has a lot more ups going on than my reference. Thats because the spots that are actually not ups are white as well in my reference image. And thats why i dont get the structure I want because because there is too much coming OUT of the surface.

I am sorry if this is confusing, its hard to explain.
Does that make any sense to you ?

[Philcc]

Hey Genny,

thanks for the help, I already tried the high pass filter. Still my issue is, that I get to many ups that are not in my original surface.

Do I have to take another picture and how? Or is there no other way than "painting" a custom texture :( ?

[ctbram]

Not sure I am understanding you. Sorry. I'll keep an eye on the thread to see if someone can clear it up. Sorry the vector displacement stuff was not helpful.

[Gen]

The source image itself is a problem, there is a lot of white because of the highlights. If you can work some magic with the contrasting (or even use a gradient map maybe?).

[Philcc]

Hey guys,

Yes Genny I guess I would have to take the photo somehow different. So that I get the downs as a dark spots and the ups as white spots. Its just that small that its a pain to get a good image.

Thanks Rick for the help I really appreciate it! :)

I guess also I have to take a bump map for the middle parts because the displacement is rendering for ever. even in 4 hours I couldnt get a 3000x1500 picture.

If you look at the boarders of the mask on the original picture you see that there ist even more going on. Would you say that I shall use a bump map on the middle part, and then a displacement on the borders or how would you do this?

Thank you guys, I would be pretty f** without you :)

[Gen]

Have you tried softer lighting? If you have a desk lamp and a white pillowcase/sheet/whatever and place that in front of the light source(s) to scatter it (you might have to do it at different distances). The hard directional light is really messing things up in that capture.

[daverave]

Im starting to get a little confused on this one what is the problem could you show a reference pic of what you are trying to do..................dave

[Philcc]

I will try to take a photo with the light you suggested gen.

I tried the texture as a displacement with a scale of 0.03.
It looks pretty fine. There are just too much bumps. Overkill. I have too get rid of them and add the clumpy borders of the mask.
How can i do this? Or should i model them?

Hey dave, i need my 3d mask to look exactly like the mask in my photography and now i am trying to get the texture right. And also the boarders that have a bigger scale and intensity.

[Gen]

Are you trying to make a tileable texture? If yes, you're probably fighting a rising tide trying to make that look organic to the surface. Personally, I'd give the surface some thickness as right now it looks paper thin, layout the uvs, and texture in Mudbox or in this case since you're not familiar that, Photoshop (copy paste, clone, do what you gotta do lol), and I'd also paint in the globs for the edges there. But you need a workable source texture, aside from the baked in shadows, there are warped and mirrored areas and I think the image is comprised of probably the lumpiest parts of the mask.

Though, at that distance you could probably get away with a bump map for everything except the edges, who knows, you could probably use the shadows in the texture to your advantage by also using the map at a reduced weight in the color channel and using matching angle for the light(s).

[Philcc]

That is just a rough preview of my texture. Yes it is cloned in photoshop, just quickly so that I have the right scale. I will do the adjusting and tileableness after I found the best texturephoto.
How do you mean "paint in the globs" ? Where am I supposed to paint them?
I#ve never worked with mudbox or zbrush before so I would rather prefere other options, but what has to be done, has to be done :)

I think when I take a good photo of my texture with not that many "bumps" and noise I will get a decent effect. Just curious how exactly I am supposed to make the Edges look right.

Thanks for the quick responses guys, helps me alot :)