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G-Man
Generally tweaks on actual personal meshes I dont as such. When Ive rigged my own stuff I know its limits and because Im doing stills and not animation I can get in there and simply paint it out in Zbrush or even in PS after the renders have popped. But When it comes down to rigs and stuff in production, theres a zillion and one things that are going on, theres blendshapes, muscles, cloth, and even displacements etc......plus theres more than one dude involved in all the processes and everyone has their say. Generally the model meshes are fine but whether they fit a camera is another matter. Sometimes refernces can be misleading as opposed to a final shot At some stage any of this stuff can just explode in a rig depending how far they are pushed....its not all perfect. So sometimes in specific areas something may not work - period, so its necessary for any team to evaluate the entire thing. This means start with the modeller and finishing at the final comp, its a matter of whittling it down until the prob is found and then you tweak it...then go again and so on until it works. hope that helps Jay |
it does,
if i understood correctly, to sum it up, a perfectly good model, in a production, can under the correct (or wrong as it were) circumstances, completely and fall to pieces. Also while this were happening, it is not necessarily the fault of anyone, but only limitations of the amount of different forms of 'art' thrown upon the poor mesh in question? Would this be the main driver of Weta, ILM, ect. producing their own software / plug- in a lot of times for this movie, or that to solve some problem or another they are having? G-man |
Absolutely Right.
Sometimes stuff straight out of the box simply wont stand up. This is really why maya and most of the apps are the way they are, they can be re-written under the hood. Im using stuff here at work just for modelling that kicks maya's standard stuff into touch. cheers Jay |
In that case, here's the kicker then old friend.
and i ask this here, hopefully so that it will help others as well. In my case, you know my skill sets, and my forte, what i am good and and what i am not so good with, at least i would think you do after this long anyway. Granted, i know you or no one else, really has seen anything new form me in a while unless you've gandered at that environment i am working on based on a Feng concept. That being said, and hopefully being correct, What would you offer me (or others) as advice, being a organics guru such as you are, on my next step to actually being able to model something of the flesh? I think you've heard the complaint form me before " i could seem to get the part after 'lets set up reference images' to click". To elaborate on that, for me it was getting the edge loops for eyes and mouth and nose right, and being able to play them in 3d space so that they looked like more then lumpy dumplings. (sorry for hijacking your thread bro, i just think it fit with this one semi ok ) G-man |
I shall reply to this later mate, I'm at work. I'm pretty confident in your skill set anyway....
speak later Jay |
And one question from me ...
It is must to have 2D art skills to be good at 3D or i'm wrong? or at least to be better than those 3D artists that can't draw on 2D.. thx |
My opinion on that question woudl be this:
If you plan to develop your own concept work, to be done in 3d, then a working knowledge of aspects of 2d work would of course be very useful. Otherwise, While yes, knowing how to put pen to paper Would be a useful skill in art as a whole and could not serve to hinder your efforts in 3d, i do not see that it would its self enhance your ability as a 3d artist. However Art is not something that is learned. A person either Is an artist, or isn't. Yes you have to learn the software you are using and techniques that need to be employed for this and that. But a person who is not artistic or imaginative can know all day long how to Use the software in question and not produce a scrap of art with the knowledge. For example: Anyone with time and dedication can reproduce any object they see in a tutorial as they watch the tutorial, but Not everyone can take those skills and apply them to a different object to recreate it. Also, I have found at least for my own work, i woudl not know for sure about industry work, but having a bit of imagination when dealing with concepts is necessary. you have a road...ok so you can model the road, but the concept doesn't show other bits that might make it look nicer, Light poles, Street lamps, fire hydrants, ect, an artist would be needed to employ that sort of addition to the concept. Jay, whats say since your an uber mod, you copy some of these last few posts to a different thread for this type of advice, maybe make it sticky, so that your alien character isn't hijacked any further? G-man |
hey Guys
coldwave: In my opinion 2d is a must. If you can get yourself on an evening course or class once a week to do it then do so. 2d Art is the absolute foundation of any art, and it serves as a basis in which to establish the forms of any given object albeit organic or otherwise. You get light and shadow for free without having to set anything up, that is something else to learn too. These skills will then hopefully cross into sculpture and 3d and so on. Also worth doing is carrying a small sketch book around with you, just doodle some stuff in a given time, you'll improve in no time and as I said the skills will show in other areas. G-Man: Ahh no worries mate, its all relative to whats being done here, so I'll leave the posts as is, I dont mind. Anyway as promised from earlier...I think you pretty much know your stuff as far as modelling is concerned. You know a bad mesh when you see one, I think now you just need to take the plunge and do it. You have all the theory in your head, just put it into practice. I had a similar discussion like this at work. My Supe and me both said at the end of the day a model is a model regardless of it form and surface. You just do it. The principle are the same generally. With organics like a face, have a look in the topology thread, a fairly good face mesh's edge flow pretty much follows the muscle structure of a face. theres a muscle chart there too so check it out. Also look at the first images on this thread and then look in the topology thread, despite this being an Alien, it stiill has the main muscle features in the right places. everything has form, if you can do a hard surface object then an organic one is no probs, the corners are just....rounder Jay |
I copied the 2d/art relevant posts into a new thread in member's lounge as I wanted to respond too. Hope that's ok and I'm not trying to give myself mod control or anything :p.
The alien looks awesome so far, looking forward to seeing it continue! |
Stwert
no worries, I went one further and deleted your thread but stuck all the relevant stuff in the 2d thread in the members lounge cheers Jay |
I see what you're saying about take the plunge and just do it.
I will admit, as hard as it is for me to do so, I like 'instant gratification' Art and modeling always just, came to me ....Hard surface modeling, i never really had to work at, it just flows. yes sure as with us all i have to stop and think of the best way to get something from time to time, but in general. I suppose i am scared of trying, and A) failing, and B) ending up with something akin to my old ass Catwoman thread from back in the days when Kevin was still kicking, if any of you remember that project. I suppose i will just take the plunge, though it will have to wait a while, as i am about to start a paid gig. Personal projects always come last eh? Though when i get around to doing the organics, or if i take a break from the other for a day or so just to get my head right again, Rest assured my friend, i will actually be bugging you for advice and help again, just like in the old days when i was a no body whom came begging at your door for tutelage ;) G-man |
Very nice work! I'm really liking the character idea too
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nice concept. i like it.
the lips are bubbly, maybe too bubbly? considering the rest of the head dont exhibit any of the same organic 'bubblyness' [not a real word -_+ ] maybe make a quick sketch of traditional purky lips on a new layer , and see how it looks? clean work as always. :beer: |
Vlad
lips arent anyway near finished mate. Theres a sketch on Outlaws (either sites) for how it will be. See the links below. your bubblyness Jay |
wow. just took a look see.
love it mate. hope the 3d come out as nice http://outlaws3d.com/TalesImages/alien.jpg |
So do I mate LOL
Jay |
.....First off, sorry that i turned your thread into what i did there Jay bro, wasnt intentional.
Now, Two questions.. can we get a preview of the hair you said you had instore for this guys chin?. and...second... will he alawys be hanging a little to the left? or will his "chinsticals" be dynamic and....wobbly?...I.E. is this Actually a ...forgive me but.....'sack'? and if so will his ....ermm....lil dudes move about in the 'sack'? or is it more of a chin bone that looks like balls? I know only i am sick enough to ask about that, but.. I have to know ;) G-man |
G_Man
LMFAO!!! I like that 'chinsticals' AWSOME. haha anyway, have a look on the concept art (previous post by Vlad) Hair will be on that area, though Im playing with the idea of a bit around the upper lip area. Once its all sculpted and the body is there, I will demo the hair. LOL, no his chin isn't his nutsack, its just a huge chin. It was one of those sketches that just flowed and the chin got steadily bigger as I designed it. I fell in love with the design so left it as is. Its one of those rare drawing/design moments that actually came together leaving me pleased as well. And judging by the comments everyone else does too!! cheers mate Jay |
well bro, while i love the design, obviously.
I have to say, the thought of your comic relief character ( for some reason i picture him acting like Jar-Jar binks ) spinning around fast with his 'chinsticals' whipping around in the wind like gods favorite glory hole, made me smile big big. Non the less, i am however still satisfied with a static shin bulge. :D G-man |
No not the Binksmeister.
He's more Basil Fawlty, a cowardly miserly type. with a Watto accent. thats food for thought for you.... Jay |
nice nice..
i shall chow upon it and see what thoughts egress Gimma five minutes and then check your e-mail bro G-man |
Update....
Probably wont update this until the weekend now as Im rendering some other stuff Jay http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2927/bf06.jpg |
his lips have got a nice tactile quality, i kinda wanna reach out and rub my fingers along em!
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This is real good! What sort of character is he? I can imagine him in a WW1 Fighter Pilot style getup, with the big goggles and such.
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Cheers Guys
ben: Lips arent finished yet, lots to do but Im glad you want to rub your hands on them. Someguy: He's actually a hotel manager, like that of Basil fawlty I know....twisted!! LOL Jay |
Kick ass update brotha.
What coloration will his skin have? Details if you please...tones, blotchy? solid? pokadotted? irridesant? ect ect.. G-man |
Well if you recall one of the first posts, he will be blue. Because the original model was blue that I did a few years back, and it will have yellow eyes as per the original.
I know it sounds Avatar ish but I was here first with my model a few years back and this is the redo, so James Cameron can.......do one Jay |
I think i remember the original actually, he had a mustache right?
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Yeah thats the one you got it.!!! Good memory.
Jay |
..wait.....is this a remake of the big fat dude you did a few years back?....Bah...lol brother, you should know better then anyone form our e-mails lately, that i am way off my game on noticing details at the moment. LoLoL
G-man |
1 Attachment(s)
Mate you are way out of it LOL, its this guy.
I looked at this when I was readying the story recently and just thought F***!! its awful. Just show how you can develop as an artist, and judging this Ive improved a bit in 6years LOL, damn thats a long time Jay here he is...... |
ohh...i vaguely remember seeing this guy....somewhere i don't recall if it was here, or on your site. While i woudl say the model its self is pretty good, I must say i like the concept and design of the new guy much better...
the two things i like th emost abou tthe new guy , obviously his chinsticals, and the other thing, is the monical chain flesh dripping from his left eye....Not sure why, but i like that feature in him.... G-man |
Cool woopass!!!
You spotted it, the fleshy monicle bit, thats EXACTLY what I based it on, hence the big round eyelids too to represent an eye glass Jay |
when do we get to see another update to'm?
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Wasnt gonna do one until the weekend, I wish you'd read my posts damn it boy!! Feel like a parrot...stay off the drugs LOL
Anyway Just been giving the lips a going over more to come now AT THE WEEKEND LOL Jay http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5175/bf07.jpg |
Quote:
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...I've never felt more like a stoner, then i did when i read that Jay..><
I'm....I'm going to cry now.... <----runs away sobbing pathetically. Nah, in all seriousness... I'll be glad when I'm not all doped up from the failed attempts at pissing gravel....Hate the way it feels....the drugs and the gravel pissing!..... Jay, bro, i got it, fly me over to the UK this weekend, and take me out drinking somewhere....I'm sure to piss the rocks out then, right?!... It's getting bad, i haven't worked my day job in two weeks, i'ma have a 0$ pay check next Friday....Bah!.. Model is looking good, aside form some form of red round growth on the side of his head....looks like he went to France circa 1942 or something? Heh. G-man |
Oh man, that chin....it'll make an awesome stress toy. I'm really liking the detailing Jay.
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Thanks Guys n Gal
Gen: I had to read that twice (its 6.30 ish here in the morning so I have a good excuse) I thought you wrote 'sex toy' first - my eyes are like pies today...but yeah a stress toy would be kind cool with that chin laters Jay |
LmAo, Bro, i was just thinking, " Damn, he's up early today"..
then i realized " Hell I'm up later'n crap".... course, i never sleep so..LoL Non the less, at-least it wasn't me who missed a detail this time!!!! G-man |
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